Noob hardware advice, please

[Slowride]

Hello group,

I've been folding since May this year, lately producing around ~2500PPD. I know a little about computers, but some of this is over my head. I want to take it to the next level but the more I read on here and other forums, the less certain my path becomes. First, let me tell you what I am currently running to see if there is room for improvement there. Most are older machines I fired up just to see what they would produce.

1. XP Laptop Centrino Duo @1.66Ghz, 2Gb Ram, Mobile Inltel 945GM Express ~300PPD w/CPU Client

2. Vista 32 SFF, Athlon 64X2 Dual Core 3800+ @2.0 Ghz, 1GB ram, Nvidia Geforce 6150LE ~200PPD w/CPU Client

3. XP Pentium 4 @ 2.4Ghz, 512MB Ram, All iN wONDER 9000 ~100ppd w/CPU Client

4. XP Celeron D @3.33 Ghz, 1GB Ram, Nvidia Geforce 8600GT ~1500PPD w CPU and GPU Client

5. XP Pentium 4 @3,80 Ghz, 4GB Ram, Nvidia Geforce 6800 ~300PPD w/CPU Client

6. XP AMD Phenom 9500 Quad Core @2.2Ghz, 4GB Ram, Nvidia Geforce 9400GT ~1300PPD w/CPU and GPU Client

7. Vista 32 Laptop, Core 2 Duo T9400 @ 2.53 Ghz, 3GB Ram, ATI Mobility Radeon HD3650 ~PPD w/CPU Client

8. PS3 ~1000PPD as usual

Some are probably at their peak and some probably aren't worth upgrading, but I think a few could/should be producing more.

If you need more info for a proper evaluation, just ask. PPDs are from Fahmon. I realize this is a lot to ask all at once and especially in my first post but I would really appreciate any input.

Thanks!

[weedacres]

If they were my machines I would install VMWare Player 3 on 2, 6 & 7 and run a linux smp client. You'll significantly improve your folding performance.
#2 needs more memory and as long as you're doing it I'd take it to 4GB. With Player 3 you can run 4 core smp which would alleviate the need to run 2 x 2 core smp on #6.
For example, my Athlon 64 X2 6000+ at 3.0 ghz produces 1700ppd. I have 3 4-core's that produce from 4600-5600ppd, all are highly overclocked. My laptop with a T9300 produces 2100ppd. All but the laptop are driving multiple 8800gt's.

The linux I use is notfreds but that's because I'm lazy. Ubuntu 8.04 works just as well and will give you a chance to learn some linux. The good news is that both are free, as is VMWare Player.

edit: You'd have to check to make sure that the cpu's in question support Virtual Technology or Extensions. I know the T9400 does, and think that the other two do as well. If one doesn't then you can't install the 64 bit linux on the 32 bit host OS.

[Slowride]

Thanks Weedacres,

I've been looking into running Linux, seems more productive. I use 6 and 7 on a regular basis, can I run simultaneous OS? Or switch as needed?

Unfortunately, #2 Is one of those HP Slimlines, I think it will only take another Gig of memory but better than where it is now.

I'm also looking at replacing some of the video cards, looks like the 9800GT and it's variations will work for me.

Which configuration settings should I look at to optimize output besides priority and affinity?

[weedacres]

Thanks Weedacres,

I've been looking into running Linux, seems more productive. I use 6 and 7 on a regular basis, can I run simultaneous OS? Or switch as needed?

Unfortunately, #2 Is one of those HP Slimlines, I think it will only take another Gig of memory but better than where it is now.

I'm also looking at replacing some of the video cards, looks like the 9800GT and it's variations will work for me.

Which configuration settings should I look at to optimize output besides priority and affinity?

Sure, the beauty of VMWare is that you can run your normal windows applications while folding under Linux. Certainly 2gig will be better than 1.

I run all of my linux smp/gpu folding machine with vmware-vmx.exe set to idle and the gpu cores Fahcore_11.exe and Fahcore_14.exe set to Real Time. I use Process Lasso which has worked well for me, but others do it differently.
All but one of my pc's are dedicated folding machines so I don't care about their desktop performance. On my "production" machine desktop responsiveness is not as fast as it is when folding is stopped but it's acceptable. One key setting is the environmental setting FAH_GPU_IDLE. I set it to 05 which causes the Nvidia gpus to run at 95%. This solves a lot of the desktop problems and is not noticeable in terms of any gpu performance penalty.

[Slowride]

I was sucessful in geting VMWare to run on #7. #6 doesn't support vitrtualization so I think I'll add 2 9800GTs to that box with that being about as much as it will handle. Then find more ram for #2 before I try VMWare on it.

Another question, if after I am done with all of this and still want more PPD, is it more cost effective to build a diskless farm or to upgrade one of my existing boxes with all new hardware?

Thanks!

[weedacres]

Upgrading the old P4's and D's is pretty iffy in my opinion. You're going to need mother boards, cpus, memory, gpu's and probably power supplies to drive all of that. Diskless isn't as necessary as it once was if you shop around. I just bought a 160GB Western Digital from newegg.com for 39.99 with free shipping. That gives me lots of options that diskless doesn't.

What I did on my latest build was bought an Antec 300 case, 4GB of Mushkin ram and 750w Thermaltake power supply from newegg all on sale no shipping. A Q6600 and Abit IP35 Pro mother board and 2 - 8800gts from ebay.
It's hard to find a better performer for the money than the Q6600. It'll easily overclock to 3.3 ghz with a decent heasink (not Intel's) and easily outperforms the AMD Phenom II X4 940 in folding.

Not being in a hurry is the key. It took me about 2 months of waiting until the right price showed up before I got all of the parts I needed.

[Slowride]

Okay, I have VMWare running on my Laptop, the core is saying over 2 days to complete, each % point taking about 30 minutes, is that normal? Please tell me how to post FahMon if you need to see it.

[weedacres]

Okay, I have VMWare running on my Laptop, the core is saying over 2 days to complete, each % point taking about 30 minutes, is that normal? Please tell me how to post FahMon if you need to see it.

What project?
My t9300 laptop with 3GB ram running XP Pro is showing 12:34 frame times at 2200.1 ppd on P2669. Project length is about 23.5 hours.
Assuming you're running notfreds you might check to see it's set for at least 2 cores per instance (I set mine at 4).

edit: Also, what % utilization is VMware-vme.exe running at?

[Slowride]

I'm running this on #7 so hardware wise, our machines are about the same. Also running P2669. I am running notfreds , I think it is set for 2 cores per instance. Where do I check my utilization percentage on VMware-vme.exe and what should it be set to?

Thanks!

Edit: I just looked at VMware and I'm getting the "attempt to access beyond end of device". I've seen that on here, time to read again, lol

[uncle fuzzy]

I'm running this on #7 so hardware wise, our machines are about the same. Also running P2669. I am running notfreds , I think it is set for 2 cores per instance. Where do I check my utilization percentage on VMware-vme.exe and what should it be set to?

Thanks!

Edit: I just looked at VMware and I'm getting the "attempt to access beyond end of device". I've seen that on here, time to read again, lol

The quick way to check cpu usage of notfred's is open Task Manager (by right clicking the task bar) and click the Processes tab, Find vmware-vmx and read the cpu column.

"attempt to access beyond end of device" happens all the time. Just ignore it.

Have you checked the discussion on "fixing" the Linux core v2.10 slow down?
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=11367
tear has done a lot of work on this.

[weedacres]

I'm running this on #7 so hardware wise, our machines are about the same. Also running P2669. I am running notfreds , I think it is set for 2 cores per instance. Where do I check my utilization percentage on VMware-vme.exe and what should it be set to?

Thanks!

Edit: I just looked at VMware and I'm getting the "attempt to access beyond end of device". I've seen that on here, time to read again, lol

The quick way to check cpu usage of notfred's is open Task Manager (by right clicking the task bar) and click the Processes tab, Find vmware-vmx and read the cpu column.

"attempt to access beyond end of device" happens all the time. Just ignore it.

Have you checked the discussion on "fixing" the Linux core v2.10 slow down?
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=11367
tear has done a lot of work on this.

I agree with uncle on everything he's said although the 2.10 problem should not double his frame times. It's important to know if vmware is getting or using close to 100% of the cycles, or if some other process is hogging the cpu. Task Manager or one of the other process viewers will tell us that.
One of the reasons I love Process Lasso is that it not only lets me control priorities and affinity, but it has a column called CPU AVG % which shows me how it's been running over time.
My laptop shows 97.39% Avg CPU utilization for the last 6 workunits, most of which are P2669.

edit: Let me add one other thing to try. Find Vmware-vmx.exe on your boot drive. In XP it's in Program Files\VMware\VMware xxx. For yours probably something like \VMware Player or whatever. Find the vmware-vmx.exe file with windoze explorer or whatever file manager you use, right click and find properties. Someone with Vista might be able to help here but in Properties and probably Advanced, you should be able to set vmware-vmx.exe to run as Administrator. I'm doing this from memory as I dumped my vista and win 7 systems. Seems to me I had to do that when running either Vista or W7.

[uncle fuzzy]

True, the fix should bump him 15-20%, but 30 minute frames means a big problem somewhere else.

I'm lazy. I just use Task Manager to set priorities and affinities and read cpu and memory usage.

[Slowride]

The quick way to check cpu usage of notfred's is open Task Manager (by right clicking the task bar) and click the Processes tab, Find vmware-vmx and read the cpu column.

Task Manager shows vmware-vmx running 95%~98%, Priority is set at low, affinity is set to both CPUs.

Have you checked the discussion on "fixing" the Linux core v2.10 slow down?
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=11367
tear has done a lot of work on this.

Not yet, but I will, thanks!

edit: Let me add one other thing to try. Find Vmware-vmx.exe on your boot drive. In XP it's in Program Files\VMware\VMware xxx. For yours probably something like \VMware Player or whatever. Find the vmware-vmx.exe file with windoze explorer or whatever file manager you use, right click and find properties. Someone with Vista might be able to help here but in Properties and probably Advanced, you should be able to set vmware-vmx.exe to run as Administrator. I'm doing this from memory as I dumped my vista and win 7 systems. Seems to me I had to do that when running either Vista or W7.

I will try to find that as well although my knowledge of Vista is pretty limited.

Thanks guys!

[weedacres]

Task Manager shows vmware-vmx running 95%~98%, Priority is set at low, affinity is set to both CPUs.

Huh,, I expected to see it at 50%. What does FahMon tell you about the ppd you are getting on this laptop? Yours should be at least as fast as my T9300.

I don't know if setting vmware-vmx to run as administrator will do anything. I just fired up my Win 7 machine and it's folding fine with VMWare/notfreds and that file not set to run as administrator. Shot in the dark.

[Slowride]

What does FahMon tell you about the ppd you are getting on this laptop?

Fahmon shows 413.28 PPD, just a tad shy of your numbers, eh?

I tried setting vmware-vmx to run as administrator, not sure if it took, didn't note any change as well.

I am going to look at tear's thread (again, as a lot of it went right over my head the first go round), see if I can find anything else to try.