Folding@home proposal letter to my school

[jrweiss]

I Fold on a couple P3/7xx machines with 256MB each. Running at 85% CPU utilization, F@H is transparent.

[theMASS]

This was big WU off. CPU % isn't the issue either. XP doesn't run well with 512MB even without F@H running. These machines all have M$ Office on them so that is also a contributing factor. At the time I installed F@H on the 3 referenced machines I had limited experience with folding having just started folding on my PS3 a few days prior, and I didn't try limiting F@H to 256MB so that may have helped. The machines without F@H were using 350+MB RAM just for XP and Office's startup bloat.

Anyway RAM is more of an issue than CPU in regards of transparent operation on school/basic office class machines that are more than a few years old.

UPDATE: I just looked at one the above referenced computers and F@H is only using ~20MB of RAM so without more research and my primary folding experience being the SMP client, I'll side with the others who suggest lowering CPU utilization %. But keep in mind that I have 2 laptops that run the standard client "transparently" on machines with 1GB RAM with slower processors than the machines that had 512MB.

...and this is why most admins. will reject the idea of installing software that isn't necessary to the primary function of the machine's intended use. It's not because they can't figure it out, but it takes time from their "real" job.

[John Naylor]

Also most computers are kept in two states. The first is logged off, when students are not using them. Sitting at a login screen would do nothing, so figure out a work around. Furthermore you'll need to talk to the tech guy, because the computers are wiped clean every night.

I did ask the people on this forum about it. And they told me that Folding@home will be folding even if the computer is at its login screen.

Yes - but only the console client as a service.

[jrweiss]

UPDATE: I just looked at one the above referenced computers and F@H is only using ~20MB of RAM so without more research and my primary folding experience being the SMP client, I'll side with the others who suggest lowering CPU utilization %. But keep in mind that I have 2 laptops that run the standard client "transparently" on machines with 1GB RAM with slower processors than the machines that had 512MB.

I agree with you there. My dual P3/550 with 1 GB folded 2 large WUs at 100% MUCH faster than the P3/7xx with 256 MB and normal WUs at 85%.

RAM IS important. However, if you are already tolerating XP on a 256 MB machine, F@H running at 85% will not slow it perceptibly. I DID notice a significant slowdown when running at 95-100%, and a lesser slowdown at 90%.

[theMASS]

I agree with you there. My dual P3/550 with 1 GB folded 2 large WUs at 100% MUCH faster than the P3/7xx with 256 MB and normal WUs at 85%.

RAM IS important. However, if you are already tolerating XP on a 256 MB machine, F@H running at 85% will not slow it perceptibly. I DID notice a significant slowdown when running at 95-100%, and a lesser slowdown at 90%.

I didn't realize the one that only had 256MB only had 256MB so I would have upgraded that regardless

I had 4 dual P3/550s that I scrapped and replaced with an E4300 since it does more work that the 4 duals and the power savings more than paid for the machine. (Actually even the E4300 has been upgraded to an E6420)

[jrweiss]

Yep! My dual P3/550 is now serving a youth outreach project. The E6850 is MUCH faster than the dual Opteron 246 (which my wife now has), and uses less power than either of them. OTOH, my office is a bit cool this winter...

[randomperson1]

Also most computers are kept in two states. The first is logged off, when students are not using them. Sitting at a login screen would do nothing, so figure out a work around. Furthermore you'll need to talk to the tech guy, because the computers are wiped clean every night.

I did ask the people on this forum about it. And they told me that Folding@home will be folding even if the computer is at its login screen.

Yes - but only the console client as a service.

Ah, this is interesting, so they would need to use the console version? Is it possible to set up the GUI version in some special way to get it working? (I think that the students (including myself) would like watching the 'pwetty pattewns on de scween' - basically, I prefer the screensaver 'cos you can see what is going on. And it looks better.) Yeh, but, more seriously, is there any way of getting the screensaver to work all the time, at login screens etc?

I have also noticed that when the thing is in the screensaver it crashes if it completes a WU. Maybe this is just for my PC, I will see what happens when/if they begin testing FAH, but is there any way round it? My PC has a AMD Athlon 64 3500+ with a NVidia GeForce 7900GS, would an Intel Pentium D (+possible intergrated graphics or an Intel GPU) work? Or can you not say? There is also the issue of OpenGL support on these PCs...

Maybe it would be better to use the console edition...

[bruce]

I'd suggest any administrator who cant run FAH on a medium spec'd computer (>=1GHz and 256-512mb ram), has done a pretty crap job of setting up the network, and the computers running on it.

This may be true, but it's not information that could/should be used by a student trying to get FAH installed at the school. Some districts have well qualified net-admin's; some do not. You don't get to choose who you're going to try to convince.

[ruth]

Today I talked to the tech guy in our school and principal. They didnt ask too many questions about it.
They did ask how much bandwidth it takes since our school network is bad.

So, How much bandwidth does Folding@home take?
And they said that they are awaiting a reply from the head of the tech department for the whole district.

[theMASS]

Today I talked to the tech guy in our school and principal. They didnt ask too many questions about it.
They did ask how much bandwidth it takes since our school network is bad.

So, How much bandwidth does Folding@home take?

In general terms not much. But the more clients the more bandwidth. It doesn't use bandwidth continually, just a small amount for the download of each WU and then a larger amount to send the results back. Since you'll most likely have the "Big WU" option off it should be manageable for almost any network. Also statistically based on school hours and weekends, most WUs will finish when school isn't in session.

On another note my kids' school doesn't allow "personal" requests to be made in the weekly Bulletin...apparently unless it's some sort of Democratic rally. I could understand them being strict when it was a paper bulletin, but come on it's an email! Anyway my 9 year made the request in her blog and I've had a few parents call me to ask questions. Seem to be a lot of Mac users.

[Rebel44]

Today I talked to the tech guy in our school and principal. They didnt ask too many questions about it.
They did ask how much bandwidth it takes since our school network is bad.

So, How much bandwidth does Folding@home take?
And they said that they are awaiting a reply from the head of the tech department for the whole district.

Less then 1MB/day for CPU client (not SMP) - because school PCs are usualy slower and they arent OCed.

[Booch]

Ruth,

What a great Idea! I will look into my old home town in NJ and talk with my uncle which is the Superintendent of Middlesex Borough Schools!

[ruth]

Thank you guys.

I am eagerly waiting for a reply from the school.

[anko1]

Ah, this is interesting, so they would need to use the console version? Is it possible to set up the GUI version in some special way to get it working? (I think that the students (including myself) would like watching the 'pwetty pattewns on de scween' - basically, I prefer the screensaver 'cos you can see what is going on. And it looks better.) Yeh, but, more seriously, is there any way of getting the screensaver to work all the time, at login screens etc?

I have also noticed that when the thing is in the screensaver it crashes if it completes a WU. Maybe this is just for my PC, I will see what happens when/if they begin testing FAH, but is there any way round it? My PC has a AMD Athlon 64 3500+ with a NVidia GeForce 7900GS, would an Intel Pentium D (+possible intergrated graphics or an Intel GPU) work? Or can you not say? There is also the issue of OpenGL support on these PCs...

Maybe it would be better to use the console edition...

Not on a school computer, but I have screen saver off and when I want to watch the pretty pictures, I just click display for as long as I want to watch [totally useless but very cool feature would to be able to select colors for the different type of molecules: aqua, chartreuse, vermilion, it boggles the mind....], then close it when I'm done. The program crashes when the display is open and a WU finishes. This is a known glitch (?) and has to do with the code used to make the pretty pictures (well, some code issue anyway). Just close the display when you get toward the end and reopen later (though I do like to watch the messages in real time, as opposed to reading the log, but prefer skipping that to having to restart the program each time.).

[Reefbone]

Your letter is too long. I would leave the specifics out of it. Mearly give a brief explanation of what folding does and by who and why (you think it''s beneficial). You might mention that performance is generally unaffected and point them to resources so that they might decide for themselves. You might also throw out the idea of starting a competition between a rival school. If they decide against it then you might consider asking their reasoning and then attempt to pursude them with supporting information. Also it might be more professional sounding to mention that folding runs on X, Y Z platforms and not mention that you heard about it through PS3.