Change in BA requirements

[mdk777]

Did not need to, really, since all of the looking for a "shiny badge of honor" members (i.e. PS - I might get banned) were in those two threads on those two particular forums. How one acts on their home forum is usually indicative of how one acts on a neutral help forum.

Point of fact:

The OP that you responded to has never posted on our forum.

Of course, if facts don't matter to your definition of

positive and professional

, please carry on.

PS

Reading on other forums has been instructive:

The three best quotes that summarize this entire thread:

e way that PG has decided to handle this whole thing is making me regret setting up my 4P rigs late last year. I think my future contributing to F@H depends on me not reading FF ever. Every time I get on there and see the BS posted by PG and its minions, I feel like shutting my rigs down.

It would be nice if they were honest and upfront to their supporters.

here is my guess at what is going on...

BA is for Prof Kasson and his influenza research. I suppose they expected to expand that wu class to other projects but it never happened.

VJ (head of PG) likes GPUs and has been pushing them as long as I have folded.

They have not retooled the SMP wu's over to GPUs ... GPU and BA is where the points are currently slanted.

We know that SMP are backlogged, bruce and 7im still think BA is overvalued this means their suggestions are based on hurting BA rather than helping SMP... They are clearly not economists...or have "common sense"

There is another underlying problem with SMP ... it has gotten devalued over time and new work units were never benchmarked causing the landscape of smp to be rough...
Trying to push BA to SMP is not fixing the problem but... well....

and finally

I remember when I talked to proteener a few months ago he said that BigAdv was a giant clusterfuck and that Pande should never have started it. He said it would end badly for both Pande and folders.

He said BigAdv was made simply to satisfy politics inside Pande labs.

Now perhaps professional and positive also involves honest.
Perhaps professional and positive also involves transparency and accountability.

These are the professional and positive communication I have been arguing for (perhaps in an abrasive manner)
But sometimes pulling the bandage off quickly is better than a slow peel.

[Macaholic]

Did not need to, really, since all of the looking for a "shiny badge of honor" members (i.e. PS - I might get banned) were in those two threads on those two particular forums. How one acts on their home forum is usually indicative of how one acts on a neutral help forum.

Point of fact:

The OP that you responded to has never posted on our forum.

Of course, if facts don't matter to your definition of

positive and professional

, please carry on.

Player Queen:
Both here and hence pursue me lasting strife,
If once I be a widow, ever I be a wife!

Player King:
'Tis deeply sworn. Sweet, leave me here a while,
My spirits grow dull, and fain I would beguile
The tedious day with sleep.

Player Queen:
Sleep rock thy brain,
And never come mischance between us twain!

Hamlet:
Madam, how like you this play?

Queen:
The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

[Adak]

@Bill1024:
I don't know those answers, but neither does anyone else right now. I'm 100% certain that there IS a reason for the change to the threshold of BA. Dr. Pande and Dr. Kasson are two FAH leaders that we have trusted in the past. In addition to being patient, we need to have some faith in our project leaders.

Are the above leaders in FAH ideal? Will they do everything right? Of course not. That's no reason for us to be cussing and pulling out our hair. Sometimes a little faith, goes a long way. We will get through this.

[Grandpa_01]

It is interesting that you did not include a link to the largest threads out there about the bigadv smp problem, why is that?

Did not need to, really, since all of the looking for a "shiny badge of honor" members (i.e. PS - I might get banned) were in those two threads on those two particular forums. How one acts on their home forum is usually indicative of how one acts on a neutral help forum.

Could it be that you are affiliated or ........ Just one more example of mod abuse. If you are going to share 1 share them all.

Since you asked, please visit here, here, here, and here, if it will help clear the air. Nothing found on MaxPC, OCAU, HWC, Team MacOS X, etc.

There are a lot of unhappy people out there right now and many of them are just as unhappy with this forum as they are with the points system.

Yes, they are all linked in the two threads in my previous post and 95% happen to be from Teams #1 and #2 on the points list. I get it, understandable, and I think you understand my point as well. Let's just end it there as far as OUR dialogue. Now continue with ideas on how to improve the points system and communication coming from the Pande Group with regards to future changes in a positive and professional manner. Thank you.

Opps it appears you left one out let me help you out there.
http://forums.evga.com/tm.aspx?m=2079048

[Viper97]

Imagine that disgruntled donors! I for one count myself among them. I have no problem ceasing to fold if this pans out the way I believe it will. I'll be pleasantly surprised if it doesn't.

That said as a disgruntled donor collecting information and acting upon when I see enough to justify my stay here folding all depends on the next few weeks. If the continued pace of lack of announcements when announcing things continues I'm just going to call this a government styled cluster and leave. Simple and easy to do.

We lesser mortals don't 'got time for that'.

[Bill1024]

I can only speak for my self. But from what I have seen, a few donors besides me just want clear concise answers to our questions..
From PG. Not guesses from other donors, not reading between the lines. did they mean this, did they mean that.
I believe in FAH, it is a great cause and I am sure this will work out.
Lets do give them a chance to reply, now that they know they're not being clear in their answers.
I am done until I see what they say.
Thank you everyone for your part in this project. Be it donor, researcher or administration.
Thank you.

[Macaholic]

Opps it appears you left one out let me help you out there.
http://forums.evga.com/tm.aspx?m=2079048

Thank you. And I missed this one. Interestingly, nothing at ASUS ROG, however. I do try to spend some reading and posting time with those that are not just #1 and #2 on the points list, so I may have missed some here and there. Honey always works better than vinegar.

I can only speak for my self. But from what I have seen, a few donors besides me just want clear concise answers to our questions..
From PG. Not guesses from other donors, not reading between the lines. did they mean this, did they mean that.
I believe in FAH, it is a great cause and I am sure this will work out.
Lets do give them a chance to reply, now that they know they're not being clear in their answers.
I am done until I see what they say.
Thank you everyone for your part in this project. Be it donor, researcher or administration.
Thank you.

No. Thank you. Just to be clear, Bill, I DID modify your quote, when I posted, so it stands out in red for all to see. I don't want to be accused of overzealous and unwarranted moderation.

[-alias-]

To Macaholic & PG in general
What good is this top-down attitude (in my country we call it "rule techniques") that PG uses as communication with those who do the work and uses there own money to buy hardware and power so that you can research the results? Why do you never listen to wise words from experienced donors. We are many from other teams than # 1 and # 2 that you mention. I communicate normally not here after a post I wrote was deleted without further notice, but this time I could not resist. Normally I communicate on Hardforum after the last incidence here, and there are a lot from other teams that do as well. I do not feel that many of us are very velcome on this forum if we speak up and against PG.

I do not write this on behalf of someone other than myself.

P.S. This post has been preemptively recorded so evidence of Tampering, if any, can be provided!

[orion]

I do not feel that many of us are very velcome on this forum if we speak up and against PG.

Here...to a point...but mostly because of what we post on other forums

Here are a few more threads that were missed the first time around.

Here, here, here, here and here.

[Adak]

To Macaholic & PG in general
What good is this top-down attitude (in my country we call it "rule techniques") that PG uses as communication with those who do the work and uses there own money to buy hardware and power so that you can research the results? Why do you never listen to wise words from experienced donors. We are many from other teams than # 1 and # 2 that you mention. I communicate normally not here after a post I wrote was deleted without further notice, but this time I could not resist. Normally I communicate on Hardforum after the last incidence here, and there are a lot from other teams that do as well. I do not feel that many of us are very velcome on this forum if we speak up and against PG.

I do not write this on behalf of someone other than myself.

P.S. This post has been preemptively recorded so evidence of Tampering, if any, can be provided!

@ alias: The "top down" attitude is very efficient, if not always well liked. Do you think that non-professionals, without critical information, know how to run a protein simulation project of this size? Because I'm quite certain that we don't have any experience in doing that.

Can PG run this program without ruffling folders feathers and without making some mistakes? Of course not. They can use our feedback, to highlight any corrections that are needed, but they can't use either our "moderator tampering" paranoia, or our screaming like a bunch of 10 year old girls.

We need calm rational discussion, and patience, not "it's been over a week and I don't have specific answers to this problem!", hysteria.

For heaven's sake! This is not Armageddon, and the problem will be handled. Will you or I get everything we want? Probably not. When was the last time you got everything you wanted, and it also was exactly what everybody else needed and wanted, too?

Just a reminder, I'm still collecting suggestions to fix this problem, via PM, until Midnight tomorrow. A prioritized list from you, is what's needed, if you want to get your suggestion into the poll and into the mix.

[Bill1024]

By Adak 18 minutes ago.
Will you or I get everything we want?

No, but if you try sometimes. You get what you need.

[mdk777]

We need calm rational discussion, and patience, not "it's been over a week and I don't have specific answers to this problem!", hysteria.

no, three weeks...no, three months...no, three years...no...

Yeah. not exactly hysteria.

well overdue? YES.

edit PS

@ alias: The "top down" attitude is very efficient,

yeah, it has worked so well in command and control economies whenever and wherever it is tried.

[Grandpa_01]

Can PG run this program without ruffling folders feathers and without making some mistakes? Of course not. They can use our feedback, to highlight any corrections that are needed, but they can't use either our "moderator tampering" paranoia, or our screaming like a bunch of 10 year old girls.

We need calm rational discussion, and patience, not "it's been over a week and I don't have specific answers to this problem!", hysteria.
.

Clearly you do not know what you are talking about here there is no paranoia about moderator tampering I saw the post alias's is talking about and I also saw it disappear and there was no reason for doing it. Many have had post disappear before myself included, and on more than one occasion, there is no excuse or reason for some of the things that have happen here in the past and they are part of the PR problem and it has been brewing for quite a while.

And your statement about 1 week above try a year or so do you not remember the last time this happened. There is allot of frustration in the folding community right now for multiple reasons it did not get this way over night.

Mac says 95% of the supposed trouble makers are coming from the #1 and #2 team really 95% I would guess that those 2 teams do however have the largest % of folders affected by the current move, I also noticed that in those threads the names of the people and the teams they fold for do make up around 35% of Fah's daily production. today there were 32,000 active folders that turned in work according to Kakaostats http://kakaostats.com/ I have been watching that # for the last year or so and it has been going down not up. There are some real problems that need to be fixed and it is not just the point system.

Vj has said he is going to hire a PR person that is a good thing and it was brought up to PG over a year ago that one was needed it was also brought up about the smp points problem over a year ago and many said this was going to happen at that time, so it has been quite allot of time to deal with the problems not just a week, but yet here we are again.

Anyway you name calling is not needed no is it justified you do not know what happened I doubt you would be very happy about it if the shoe was on the other foot. and you owe alias an apology.

[Adak]

Can PG run this program without ruffling folders feathers and without making some mistakes? Of course not. They can use our feedback, to highlight any corrections that are needed, but they can't use either our "moderator tampering" paranoia, or our screaming like a bunch of 10 year old girls.

We need calm rational discussion, and patience, not "it's been over a week and I don't have specific answers to this problem!", hysteria.
.

Clearly you do not know what you are talking about here there is no paranoia about moderator tampering I saw the post alias's is talking about and I also saw it disappear and there was no reason for doing it. Many have had post disappear before myself included, and on more than one occasion, there is no excuse or reason for some of the things that have happen here in the past and they are part of the PR problem and it has been brewing for quite a while.

And your statement about 1 week above try a year or so do you not remember the last time this happened. There is allot of frustration in the folding community right now for multiple reasons it did not get this way over night.

Mac says 95% of the supposed trouble makers are coming from the #1 and #2 team really 95% I would guess that those 2 teams do however have the largest % of folders affected by the current move, I also noticed that in those threads the names of the people and the teams they fold for do make up around 35% of Fah's daily production. today there were 32,000 active folders that turned in work according to Kakaostats http://kakaostats.com/ I have been watching that # for the last year or so and it has been going down not up. There are some real problems that need to be fixed and it is not just the point system.

I agree with you there ARE obviously multiple problems, because we've run into a hornet nest right here. Yes, I remember the last time the threshold for BA was changed, but I was not in the FF much, at that time. Obviously, there was more dissatisfaction than I was aware of.

Vj has said he is going to hire a PR person that is a good thing and it was brought up to PG over a year ago that one was needed it was also brought up about the smp points problem over a year ago and many said this was going to happen at that time, so it has been quite allot of time to deal with the problems not just a week, but yet here we are again.

Anyway you name calling is not needed no is it justified you do not know what happened I doubt you would be very happy about it if the shoe was on the other foot. and you owe alias an apology.

I did NOT call alias any name. I characterized the over-reaction I've seen in this thread. The problem is not going to be solved NOW. This is a problem that will take time to solve, since as you say, it touches upon several other problems. Just the BA threshold problem alone can't be solved without some time spent working on an answer.

I am not here because I am affected. I am here because folders like Nathan_P, with "ankle biters", will be hugely affected by the increased threshold. My goal is to let those affected, step down to about 25% less points than what they earned in BA, not the 40% to 67% step down that they face today. So I am arguing as if, the shoe were indeed on the other foot, and I was affected.

GrandPa, out of all the problems, which one do you see as most critical, right now? If it's not the BA threshold change, then we should get a thread started that discusses that problem, calmly and deliberately.

Because there is no way that we are going to solve several problems, all at once, in just one thread. Let's keep this thread for the BA threshold change problem. Let's enumerate other problems in a thread or threads of their own, and remember the value of patience. These problems were not created over-night, and they won't be solved over-night, either.

Do you agree with the above, or not?

[bruce]

Clearly you do not know what you are talking about here there is no paranoia about moderator tampering I saw the post alias's is talking about and I also saw it disappear and there was no reason for doing it.

Please reply by PM since it's about someone other than yourself.

Just what did you observe yourself and what is based on hearsay?

When did -alias- make a post that was deleted? What topic was it in? When was it deleted? Was it in violation to the forum policies? Did he receive a notification of why it was being deleted?

This post has been preemptively recorded so evidence of Tampering, if any, can be provided!

Please reply by PM. To me, the word "tampering" is different than moderation, which is enforcing the forum policy. Violation of forum policies will result in posts being edited or deleted (it says that in the policy). Tampering suggests censorship of ideas related to the topic being discussed.

Point me to one post where there has been tampering -- specifically, where have ideas associated with the Change in BA Requirements been altered or such ideas censored.

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Note: In accordance with forum policy, all discussion of moderator actions is to be limited to PMs. I have asked you to reply by PM. Any public replies discussing this particular post will be deleted or moved out of the public view. (This and all discussion of moderator actions is off-topic for this discussion anyway.)

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EDIT: I did receive a reply from -alias- reporting that a post was deleted some 14 months ago. Our records of which Mod did it and why are sufficiently jumbled that I can't determine what happened or why. (Nobody is disputing that it happened.) It was my impression that the report was about something recent, supporting the need to seek proof of "tampering" in current topics. I still contend that today's Mods have cleaned up their act but the critics haven't noticed.