Should I do beta or advanced?

[Volnaiskra]

I'm confused about the flags I should or shouldn't use.

I ahve two Titans, and was disappointed to realise that they weren't getting QRBs. Then I learnt that only 0x17 cores give QRBs, and that apparently only beta- and/or advanced- enabled slots get them (I've read both - didn't know which to believe). This is in direct contradiction to the official FAQ by the way, since it explicitly says that using "advanced" gives no PPD advantage.

So I've gone "beta". I've now got two 0x17 cores happening, although the folding seems more sporadic: cards not starting immediately, cards switching between load and idle on their own, slots resetting from "gpu: 2" to "gpu: -1" on their own.

Should I switch from "beta" to "advanced"? My understanding is that this will give me slightly more stable cores. Will I still get the 0x17 cores that give QRBs?

[Rel25917]

Core 17 is now available to all without the use of beta or advanced flags. If you want to use the beta flag you need to sign up for the beta team. No help will be given to users of the beta flag outside of the beta forum. Right now I believe the only core 17 project is 8900 so units from there will be in short supply until older projects finish and new projects are launched.

If folding seems sporadic its just because you dont know what the core is doing. Every time core 17 starts there is a certain amount of setup time, much more so than older cores ever had. It also does a checkpoint every 2%. During these time gpu usage will be 0%.

As for slots going from gpu 2 to -1 if you only have the 2 cards they should be gpu 0 and gpu 1, not 1 and 2. The only reason to change them from -1 in the first place is if FAH gets them out of order.

[P5-133XL]

What client-type does is choose what risk of WU failure you are willing to take. All cores, clients, and projects go through a development process that starts with internal, then goes to beta, next advanced and finally general release (no client-type). Core_17 (the only GPU core that gives QRB) was recently released to general release (in Windows). So you can get Core_17 WU's at any stage in the development process now. If you pick one of the client=types and there are no WU's for you to get that your HW qualifies for then you will be moved to the next lowest risk category.

Within each risk category, each project is competing to be assigned with all the other projects in the same category. PG assigns a priority/probability for each project based on its value to PG. There is no guaranty that you will get a Core_17 WU in any of the categories. That being said, Core_17 projects are the newest and thereby the most likely to be a high risk category like beta and the non-Core_17 are the oldest projects and are most prevalent in the general release category.

None of this technically has to do with PPD. That being said, because Core_17 give QRB and is new then you are more likely to get Core_17 in beta and thereby right now, if you have a high performing GPU that is likely where you want to be but you have to be willing to accept the risk that you are much more likely to get bad WU's. If you have a low-end GPU or are a part-time GPU folder then you are likely better off in general release because you are more likely to get the older Core_11/15/16 projects.

It is strongly recommended that if you want to run beta WU's that you join the beta team. The main reason is there is absolutely no support for anything beta in the general forums. If you are not a beta team member and running something beta you are totally on your own. No one is allowed to answer anything and we actively remove posts and threads containing anything beta from the general forums. If you are a beta team member then there is a forum dedicated just to you for support.

[Volnaiskra]

The reason for the "gpu: 2" is that I have 3 cards (the 3rd is a gt 650). FAHcontrol regularly gets them confused, thinking that one of the Titans is the 650 and vice versa.

It seems that core_17 is still very rare for general release though, right? I've been closely monitoring my folding all week, and don't believe I got a single 0x17 out of dozens of WUs.

I've also read that 0x17 cores require a full CPU core each. So if I previously had my CPU slot set to 7 cores (to leave one free for other programs), I should now set it to 5. Is that right? (perhaps this contributed to my sporadic performance earlier)

So, it sounds to me like I should go "advanced", right? Less risk than beta, but probably still substantially higher chance of getting a 0x17?

[bollix47]

It seems that core_17 is still very rare for general release though, right?

Not necessarily so. There may be a push to finish the core_15 projects and they may be given a slightly higher priority at any time. Sometimes it might just be a matter of the Assignment Server returning you to the last Work Server you were using and thus may result in getting the same type of work unit. When I see that happening and it's not what I'd prefer I usually set the slot(s) to finish and when done and uploaded I restart the client. It may not always help but so far I have had some success following that procedure.

I should now set it to 5. Is that right?

Yes, but it's always best to Finish the current work unit before making this type of change.

So, it sounds to me like I should go "advanced", right?

Yes.

FYI the Blog link at the top of every forum page does try to keep everyone informed of events such as:

Changes in Core17: update and move to full fah

[7im]

As mentioned above, only go to advanced if you are willing to take on that additional risk of getting an increased number of bad work units which may result in no points, stalled clients, etc.

Now that core 17 is in full release, using advanced will not result in getting more of those work units.

[Volnaiskra]

Thanks for the info, guys. Appreciated.

As mentioned above, only go to advanced if you are willing to take on that additional risk of getting an increased number of bad work units which may result in no points, stalled clients, etc.

Now that core 17 is in full release, using advanced will not result in getting more of those work units.

That's hard to believe. Firstly, if the x15 and x16 cores are at the end of their life, it seems unlikely that there'll be as many of them in beta or advanced state than the x17s.

Secondly, as mentioned, I've had more x17s in 24 hours since switching to beta (and then advanced) than I've had all week in normal mode - possibly even all month, because although I only started scrutinising it this week, my score for the previous month would suggest a relatively slow PPD.

Maybe that's just bad luck, but considering my previous point, it seems reasonable to assume it's more than just luck.


By the way, is there an easy way to see a list of all the WUs you've completed (not all the details, just the project numbers)?

[P5-133XL]

HFM.net has a work history viewer as one of its features.

Firstly, if the x15 and x16 cores are at the end of their life, it seems unlikely that there'll be as many of them in beta or advanced state than the x17s

I would not assume that. There are real issues with Core_17 and Part-time GPU folders or low-end GPU's. Issuing new projects with the older cores is one possible solution that would be very easy to implement. Those projects would still use the same development process potentially flooding beta with new projects using old cores.

[7im]

Also, not all projects follow the beta, adv, full release modes. If project A on core_17 went through the whole process, and then project B on core_17 only has a small minor change, it may get internally tested, benchmarked, and then sent to full release, completely skipping beta and adv.

Believe what you will... I know. I also know not to assume anything. Yes, they typically follow a set procedure, but not always. And even if they follow the full process, beta and adv testing might take 1 day each. Again, no real advantage.

And lastly, if you assume that using a setting of beta will always fail over to adv, and then fail over to normal WUs, don't hold your breath. I've seen clients on adv setting stuck getting no work while there are lots of normal WUs available. Not all of the assignment servers work that way.

Feel free to experiment carefully with what setting works for you, but don't assume any one recommendation is a hard and fast rule that never changes. It always changes, and each setting has it's risks. Caveat Folder.

[Volnaiskra]

Well, I appreciate the intent of what you guys are saying, but after trying each mode for a few days, beta clearly seems the way to go if I want x17s.

After months of 'normal' with few or no x17s, I switched to beta and immediately got x17s. I've been running advanced for the best part of the week, and I again got almost no 0x17s (about 10% - the rest were 0x15). I switched to beta again last night, and lo and behold 2 out of 3 of my current projects are 0x17s.

I understand I can't get support for beta WUs, though I don't see why I would want to. Either it works and I stick with it, or it doesn't and I switch back to advanced or normal. I also understand that more beta WUs might fail, but at the rate of extra points I'm getting, the failure rate would have to be something like 70% before it'd negatively impact my PPD.

Which brings me to my next question: Is there a way to see a list of all my WUs, including project numbers and success/fail?

[P5-133XL]

Try HFM.net to get a WU history

As to lack of support for beta, it can matter. Not all failures modes are as simple the WU failing and you getting another. However, you can simply apply to join the beta team to get that support as long as you are willing to accept the duties and responsibilities of beta testing..

[Rel25917]

the failure rate would have to be something like 70% before it'd negatively impact my PPD.

Actually your ppd will crash with a 20% failure rate as you need an 80% success rate to earn bonus points.

[7im]

And if you don't monitor the client closely as beta testers are expected to do, you could blow through a large number of bad work units very quickly when those WUs make it to a beta server again.