Re: Low price GPUs

[art_l_j_PlanetAMD64]

I have a 430 running with a Pentium D and the 430 gets as high as 10x the points (6000 vs 600). I run SMP to make the main system fan go faster and cool the GPU about 3 degrees C, which is big when you go down from 99-100 to 96-97.

96-97C is very high. The GT 430 specifications show that the Maximum GPU Temperature is 98C.

This will have very severe effects on the lifetime of your GPU, as is described here:

Ever since my EVGA GTX285 card failed, I have run all of the fan controls manually, resulting in impressive temperature drops across all of my GPUs.
EVGA's "Auto" fan control was particularly bad, resulting in GPU temperatures from 85C to 95C. Switching the same EVGA card to Manual and setting the fan speed to maximum, resulted in 20C to 30C drops in temperature. So even though the card had a very well-designed cooling system, the Auto control had the temperature up to card-killing levels. I mentioned this fact to EVGA when I was getting them to replace (free of charge under warranty) my GTX285 card that had failed.

The rule-of-thumb often used is that MTBF will halve for each 10C rise in temperature.

I use this program to increase the fan speed to keep my GPUs cool, it works on all NVidia GPUs, not just those made by EVGA:
EVGA Precision X
Note that you have to create a user account to download, but that's free to do.

I keep all of my GPUs running below 65C, even the ones that get the "hardest" WUs (762x). I would recommend improving the cooling (increase fan speed, improve the airflow path as much as possible) in order to increase the lifetime of your GPU. Only increase the fan speed enough to get the temp down to a reasonable value, say below 70C. Running the fan speed too high will reduce the lifetime of the fan. It's a balancing act to get the best overall result.

[P5-133XL]

I agree that 96-97C is very high. My comfort zone is higher than PlanetAMD64 but level makes me think something is wrong. I would be looking for the fan not running or the machine needs to be cleaned of debris using canned air.

[TonyStewart14]

Thanks for the input. Sometimes the temperature can decrease depending on the work unit to about 92-93 degrees, but the big ones like 7623 that I'm running now run hot. I have it at 96% fan speed (the max according to eVGA Precision) and stock clock (700 core and memory, 1400 shader). I am also running SMP which makes the main system fan run faster and cools down the GPU about 3 degrees like I mentioned in the last post. Since it's at stock clock, full fan speed, I use canned air from time to time, and have the main system fan running quickly as well, I'm surprised it gets that hot. Granted, it's a single-slot card that doesn't have ventilation out the back of the case like the more expensive ones, but it's still unfortunate. I haven't had trouble with it failing WUs or anything like that, but perhaps I could underclock it. I noticed 430's are retailing at Amazon for more than I purchased it for, but I'm not sure that it would be ethical to sell it considering the lifetime reduction the previous poster mentioned here.

EDIT: Forgot to mention with the previous post, but the fan is definitely running. One time, an extra power cord from the power supply jammed the fan and it would go up to 105 C and automatically reboot the computer. Once that happened twice, I found out that was the cause of the problem.

[k1wi]

What's your case situation like? There shouldn't be that much heat being dumped into the case from a 430. But if its a particularly confined case you might benefit from placing a fan on the side of your case to either feed new air or vent hot air, if applicable.

With your GPU fan running flat out you might check that your voltages are normal and aren't running oddly high or anything.

[art_l_j_PlanetAMD64]

Thanks for the input. Sometimes the temperature can decrease depending on the work unit to about 92-93 degrees, but the big ones like 7623 that I'm running now run hot. I have it at 96% fan speed (the max according to eVGA Precision) and stock clock (700 core and memory, 1400 shader). I am also running SMP which makes the main system fan run faster and cools down the GPU about 3 degrees like I mentioned in the last post. Since it's at stock clock, full fan speed, I use canned air from time to time, and have the main system fan running quickly as well, I'm surprised it gets that hot. Granted, it's a single-slot card that doesn't have ventilation out the back of the case like the more expensive ones, but it's still unfortunate.

It sounds like the airflow through your computer's case is not too good. If your computer is in a location where leaving the case open would not be a safety hazard, you could leave the side panel off, to improve the cooling. I did that with my AMD FX-8150/dual-GTX 660 Ti system as shown here:

The improvement in cooling is dramatic:

• Old cpu/gpu0/gpu1 temps = 53C/73C/61C
• New cpu/gpu0/gpu1 temps = 37C/57C/53C

As you can see, I even had a 12" (30cm) fan blowing into the case, to get the CPU and GPU temperatures down. Even without the external fan, it could be a big help. As I say, depending on your computer's location, it might be a way to save your GPU from dying an early death.

[bruce]

I generally opt for a 2-slot GPU card that exhausts the heat out the back rather than increasing the heat trapped inside the case -- but that's not an option for you today. Many computer cases have a blank hole designed for an extra case fan to be added and the motherboard probably has another spot to plug in that fan. As long as you get a fan that fits the hole it's really easy to add another fan (or even to replace a cheap fan with one that costs a little more but moves more air).

The idea of asking the CPU to produce more heat just to get more air moving seems to me like going about it the wrong way, but if it works, that's better than nothing.

If there's no pre-drilled spot for an extra fan, you can buy a fan card that fills a vacant slot and moves air out the back. Hopefully you can put it next to the main source of heat.

Either option would work if leaving your case open isn't practical.

[Napoleon]

If there's no pre-drilled spot for an extra fan, you can buy a fan card that fills a vacant slot and moves air out the back. Hopefully you can put it next to the main source of heat.

Well, I simply applied a drill, hacksaw and a little bit of creativity some time ago, making a suitable spot for a 120mm side fan with holes for fan+grille mounting screws. Settled for the shape below, I had neither the tools nor the patience to make it a nice, perfectly round hole.

Code: Select all

* _______ *
 /       \
+         +
+         +
 \_______/
*         *

Get a metal mesh grille and the setup will remain protected both from dust and EMI. There's computer hacking and then there's computer hacksawing.

[PSI_Performance]

ahhhh

never thought about the power issue, im so used to AGP/PCIE cards with external power instead of robbing it from the board. Its been at least 15 years since ive used a PCI vid card LOL

I think that alone would be alot more concern than the PCI bus being a bottleneck (which is highly possible with 2 or more GPUs. Bottleneck VS burning up the mobo, Ill take bottleneck please!)

I havent come across any, does anyone make a PCI card that uses external power?

[k1wi]

I haven't seen any, but it doesn't mean they're not out there.

However another point to note is the PCI cards i've seen are pretty low performance... I'd hesitate to suggest that a PCI GT 610 (a rebranded 520) would be value for money at $60 dollars for a theoretical 155 GFLOPS when you can get a 620 (rebranded 530) for less, with 72% higher theoretical performance.

If/when GPU QRB comes in that's going to make such low powered cards really poor performers.

[coredump4]

The GT430 has 96 Cuda cores and a rating of 268.8 GFlops
The GT520 and the GT610 both have 48 CUDA cores and a rating of 155.5 GFlops

My experience is with the GT430, and as far as I've found, it is the highest performing PCI-non Express card I could find. Go Figure. It's the one that overclocks so well, and produces the ppd ratings I listed. I would expect the 520 and 610 would have proportionally less ppd considering the fewer cores, even if they have a bit higher factory clock rate. The 520 and 610 probably could be overclocked too, but not to make up for half the CUDA cores.

I've been studying the heck out of that Wikipedia page lately, and you're right, the GT 430 is the best Nvidia PCI card available. Fermi architecture with 96 CUDA cores is pretty dang good for an ancient PCI bus system. I've got a GT 610 running in one system right now, and it turns out slightly over 3k PPD (no overclocking). So like you said, I'm hoping (expecting) about 6k PPD from the GT 430.

[coredump4]

However another point to note is the PCI cards i've seen are pretty low performance... I'd hesitate to suggest that a PCI GT 610 (a rebranded 520) would be value for money at $60 dollars for a theoretical 155 GFLOPS when you can get a 620 (rebranded 530) for less, with 72% higher theoretical performance.

Has anyone ever actually seen a GT 620/GT 530 PCI card in the wild? They don't exist as far as I can tell. But since the GT 620 uses the same core (GF108) as the GT 430 anyway, the GT 430 is the practical top of the line for PCI users. And to your point about cost, a GT 430 is going to cost the same as a GT 610 and has double the CUDA cores.

[bruce]

My experience has been that PCI cards are very hard to find. If a vendor has some in stock, it's not easy to figure out a google search that can exclude PCIe / PCI Express / PCI-E / (and all other combinations that mean the same thing). and only find ones that are truly PCI-only.

[coredump4]

My experience has been that PCI cards are very hard to find. If a vendor has some in stock, it's not easy to figure out a google search that can exclude PCIe / PCI Express / PCI-E / (and all other combinations that mean the same thing). and only find ones that are truly PCI-only.

Totally agree. I have eBay searches running for PCI cards sometimes, and it's nearly impossible to prevent false-positive PCI Express results. And even if you manage to exclude all the variations of PCI Express, someone always mis-identifies a PCI-E card as PCI anyway!

[ocmusicjunkie]

Just adding a late $.02 to the topic. I've got a few high-end AMD/Radeon cards that I fold with, but obviously those aren't ideal. The beta WU's that just came out and run without a devoted core are certainly a step forward, but I still consider whatever I milk from those GPU's as a nice surprise. I picked up three GT 620 cards for $44 each including shipping from Amazon last month to fold 24/7 next to my 24/7 CPU's. They aren't going to blow your socks off, but they have proven reliable for almost exactly 5k PPD each, and haven't given me any problems at all despite literally being under full folding load for nearly 30 straight days now without a breather. If anyone has any empty pci-e slots on their board, they sip energy and are a great "set it and forget it" way to add 35k per week for pocket change. Best of all, they literally have shown zero impact on the CPU's output.

[GreyWhiskers]

My experience has been that PCI cards are very hard to find. If a vendor has some in stock, it's not easy to figure out a google search that can exclude PCIe / PCI Express / PCI-E / (and all other combinations that mean the same thing). and only find ones that are truly PCI-only.

As I've posted before, I purchased a Zotac ZT-40605-10L nVidia GeForce GT430 512MB DDR3 VGA/DVI/HDMI PCI Video Card in May 2012 through Amazon. New cards are still available - I won't post a link, but you can search for this unit and find it. It installed immediately in a PCI non-express slot in my ancient WinXP Pentium 4-HT 3.2 GHz computer, and started picking up any and all Fermi Gpu work units that came by. It only has 96 cores, so is a lot slower than the 192 core GTX560M in my laptop or the 384 core GTX56oTi in my newer desktop (2 year old Core i7 2600k). The card wonderfully overclocks - both the core and the memory clock. It doesn't have a fan, so I bought a USB muffin fan that is sitting on the bottom of my case blowing right onto the massive heatsink of this card, and it has never given me thermal problems (unlike the 560M in my laptop ).

Productivity wise, I was getting about 1300 ppd or less with the ATI AGP bus GPU I had installed in the old computer, but am getting about 5800 ppd with the GT430 - ranging from 5663 to 6490, depending on which project. I was worried initially about the PCI bus being a bottleneck vs the "optimized" AGP bus the computer came with, but the overall productivity has been great.

Note that Zotac has other PCI Fermi cards in the 4xx, 5xx and 6xx series available, but the 430 seems to have the most CUDA cores.