Bonus for A4 projects; upgrade to v6.34/v7!

[Nathan_P]

Whilst v6.34 can run a4, in my experience it ends up running a3 projects on windows whilst v7 runs the a4 projects, on linux you do get a better mix between the two but something some where slants the newer core to the newer client.

[Aardvark]

I believe a question is in order. I am currently folding with Client 6.29r3 and Core_a3 on a Core 2 Duo Mac Mini using OSX10.6.8 . If I am interested in participating in this new Core_a4 gambit, SPECIFICALLY what Client and Core should I download from what SPECIFIC FAH site location? How should the new Client be configured (including flags) to maximize the possibility of obtaining Core_a4 WUs?

I am running the Console version so any new files downloaded MUST be Linux Readable. This has been a problem in the past downloading from FAH.

If there is any viable support, I'm game for trying the Core_a4 route. The extra points are not an attraction but helping the Project is.

[Jonazz]

As far as I know you don't have to install any flags, unless you specifically want to run beta or advanced WU's. The servers automatically detect which projects are currently the most imporant to be folded. Because there are too many people only doing A3 Wu's, there's a backlog of A4 WU's. Just running the newest client will give you the WU's that need to be folded now. A3 projects are still vital and need to be folded as well.

[Jesse_V]

And each WU has a header that says what core it needs. The client takes care of the core download automatically; I don't think a manual override will be effective. Run the latest stable client for your OS, and everything should take care of itself. Other adjustments are unrelated to this announcement.

[Joe_H]

I believe a question is in order. I am currently folding with Client 6.29r3 and Core_a3 on a Core 2 Duo Mac Mini using OSX10.6.8 . If I am interested in participating in this new Core_a4 gambit, SPECIFICALLY what Client and Core should I download from what SPECIFIC FAH site location? How should the new Client be configured (including flags) to maximize the possibility of obtaining Core_a4 WUs?

I am running the Console version so any new files downloaded MUST be Linux Readable. This has been a problem in the past downloading from FAH.

If there is any viable support, I'm game for trying the Core_a4 route. The extra points are not an attraction but helping the Project is.

Here - viewtopic.php?f=6&t=21645#p216436 - another V6 OS X folder asked about installing V6 and I provided some directions and links. This was to use the graphical interface to the client - FAHControl, but once folding is set up you don't need that running other than to start or stop folding. FAHControl can be used from one machine running V7 to control other V7 clients on other machines, but setup of that is another topic. This might help if you can use a display on the Mac Mini long enough to install and setup the software.

As for downloading the files, the OS X installer is supplied as a zipped .mpkg file. That should survive any normal download to Linux. Post or PM if you have other questions.

[Grandpa_01]

This is pretty much aimed at Windows users since v7 does not work especially well on other OS. Windows users are by far the largest group of folders out there and will make the greatest amount of difference.

Certainly Windows is the largest group so in one sense FAH is aimed at Windows but that's not really not a fair statement. It's also aimed at Linux (and will be aimed at OS-X "soon"). If you're a Linux user with one of the common distros, V7 works fine, but supporting every possible Distro and every possible Linux version does have some limitations. I run V7 on Ubuntu and have had no problems at all.

Any way if every body went to v7 with the way the servers are currently set up other projects would suffer.

Please give some facts to support that statement. From everything I know, there's no foundation for that statement and it's not true.

Bruce v7 does not work on 10.10 and has not since .38 which a large portion of Linux users are still running 10.10

If you wish I can try and post a screen shot of the last 999 WU's folded on my wifes Windows 7 with v7 of fah and my gaming rig Windows 7 v7 of fah you will see 1998 a4 WU's and not a single a3, My Ubuntu 10.10 rig running v6 get exclusively a3 WU's you can easily test this. So the statement I made above is true the way the servers are currently set up the a3 projects would suffer if everybody switched to Windows v7 of fah. If you want me to post the screen shots let me know but it will take up allot of space.

I just started a linux v6 rig back up after I saw your post and I will need to remove the beta flag so it will take me a while to get 999 of them recorded but I currently have 6 a3's in a row.

[k1wi]

My 6.34's on Windows is getting a mix of public a3s and a4s projects, but I suspect there is a ton more a4s available than a3s because they are much more prevalent. But that makes sense - if there is strong demand for a3s by clients that can't fold a4s then getting clients that can fold them to fold them makes sense.

Perhaps its a Linux/Windows thing not a v6/v7 thing. Maybe the currently 'popular/numerous' a4 projects work on a Windows a4 core but not a linux a4 core? Perhaps they've just turned some taps after a visit from extra-terrestrials.

It's really all speculation as only PG have the information to know and disseminate (which I haven't seen them do in this case), all I take from this announcement is use v6.34 or v7* <--- moral of the announcement

*That way it's sort of up to PG to send you the WUs that they want you to fold.

For what it's worth, I don't see the problem with someone saying 'I'm running client x on OS y and only seem get projects using the z core' because it's more information for PG. Particularly if that someone cannot get the client to work on a particularly common OS [okay, well, not as common as Windows]

[Aardvark]

Oh, I guess this isn't for unicore projects as well I guess?

The announcement just says the bonus is going to be for all A4 WU's, no distinction was made between those folded as SMP vs. uniprocessor. Either way the A4 core requires at least 6.34 as a client.

As an OS X folder I have already gone to the V7 beta. But I am using it with OS X 10.6. I can't recommend it to persons running an earlier version of the OS, it does not work at all. For later versions of the OS there are major known bugs that also make it a non-recommendable client. The rest of the OS X folders are stuck with using 6.29, that can not even run most A3 core WU's as they require a newer core that is available only for Linux and Windows.

@Joe_H - - I am currently Folding with Client V6.29 on an Intel Mac Mini using OSX10.6.8. I have no intent of moving to lion or Mountain Lion at this time. Do you think that I would be able to switch to the v7beta Client and start Folding without any significant operational problems?? I have not followed the discussion since the v7beta was introduced so i am a bit in the dark about it's problems.

[7im]

... So the statement I made above is true the way the servers are currently set up the a3 projects would suffer if everybody switched to Windows v7 of fah.

Yes, it is a true statement, however...

1. "the way the servers are currently setup"

True, but we all know Pande Group can change the setup any time they want, and often make small adjustments. You posted about that just recently in regards to BA 690x assignment changes.

2. "if everybody switched to Windows v7 of fah"

That's a big IF, because we all know that won't happen, or won't happen quickly.

And if by some miracle that did happen quickly, we are back to #1. Pande Group can reset the mix of a3 and a4 assignments to all the new V7 clients. They can even remove the 10% bonus to help even the mix again if needed. PG can even add a 10% to a3s if needed to boost them, so there is no chance that a3s will suffer. PG has several tools in the shed to make sure that doesn't happen.

[Joe_H]

Aardvark - The issues V7 has with on 10.6.8 are relatively minor. Mostly they are with the FAHControl interface. One is that copy and paste does not work correctly in a number of places, and related to that they use the Ctrl key as standard on Windows and Linux instead of the Cmd key. That is Ctrl-C is used instead of Cmd-C to copy, etc.

Another bug is that refreshing the log can crash folding under the right conditions. It seems to happen after saving a new configuration and when the log file is large. It is not too common, I have seen it only a couple times since going to V7 last October and am not certain of the exact conditions that will trigger the bug.

Mostly, once setup it just folds away. It is when making changes that these will cause an occasional problem or be inconvenient having to type in something instead of pasting it into a field. Beyond that, the default installation for OS X sets up folding as a service, the FAHClient, fahcore and related processes run in the background and FAHControl is used to start and stop them or modify the configuration they run with. Otherwise FAHControl does not need to be running.

The FAHClient portion of the V7 software can be run from a command line interface, but I have not done so yet. The command parameters are slightly different from V6 from what I have read up on, there is a page on the wiki - https://fah-web.stanford.edu/projects/F ... ncesV6ToV7 - that discusses the differences between V6 and V7.

[Aardvark]

Joe_H - Thanks for the comments. Is it possible to bypass the use of FAHControl ENTIRELY?? I have run v6.29 from the Command Line strictly, using only the Apple Terminal application. I came to the conclusion long ago that you were better off if you could avoid the "overhead". If the Install program installs the FAHControl, can you opt to rip it out and still Fold with no problems??? Can you dissect the .mpkg install file and obtain only the v7Client for location in the Folding@Home Folder or are different games played with v7 that makes it impossible??

Keep the Faith......

[bruce]

Joe_H - Thanks for the comments. Is it possible to bypass the use of FAHControl ENTIRELY??

Yes, but I think there's a better option.

By default on OSX, FAHClient is installed as a service, meaning it runs all of the time and has no visual presence on the desktop or dock. It fulfills its fundamental function of downloading, processing, and returning results without any help from you. Once you've configured it the way you want to, FAHControl need not be running. I've adopted that configuration for several of my machines. It's much safer to start up FAHControl, modify your configuration, and then shut it down than to try to stop FAHClient, edit config.xml, and restart FAHClient. (You can introduce a lot of errors into config.xml which are difficult to correct.)

I don't know if there are any 3rd party utilities like increase, so monitoring your progress may be a bit of a challenge. The V7 log will take some getting used to if you plan to watch it.

[Aardvark]

Thank you bruce... Is it possible, in the OSX v7 environment, to stop the FAHClient, do a restart with a -configonly flag, do the config, and then restart the FAHClient for your production run?? I have lived that way with v6.29 and have made it work for me. Have not had to rely on any GUI apps, just Apple Terminal. I guess that if the v7 FAHClient is significantly different in how it functions than the v6 FAHClient, I could get in some bad situations. To me, when you say "installed as a service", I am left without an OSX equivalent term and I am not sure whether it should be considered as "risky living" or not.

[bruce]

The -configonly flag is a V6 feature. V7 is very different.

FAHControl can ALWAYS modify the configuration. Most changes happen immediately but there are some that require a restart of FAHClient.

I have wished for a text-based console application that can monitor and/or tell FAHClient to modify the configuration but I doubt any such application will be coming out of Stanford. FAHControl serves that purpose and the graphic overhead is minimal, especially if it spends most of it's time completely shut down. I'm not sure what it costs to leave FAHControl in the Dock.

[Aardvark]

Thanks bruce. I will proceed on the basis that FAHControl will remain as part of the "agenda". It sounds like v7 was planned with that as a necessary component.