New OS X Widget

[strayduck]

So if I understand correctly, what might be happening is this:

- I fire up dashboard which discards the current info
- server sends back some bad data which can not, or is not displayed
- only good data sent is displayed

If this is correct then maybe the process needs to be inverted:
- get data from servers
- if it's good update data locally
- display in widget

this way, bad data doesn't create "holes" in the display where there is no data

[pgwalsh]

When you click on dashboard to show the widget, the information should be there and it shouldn't change unless it gets and update from folding at home. If, while retrieving information from folding, the widget receives and error, it should leave the current display information as is and there should be no changes. The only times it will disappear is when you have logged off or restarted the computer, but it should pull values from preferences first and then check for updates. Beyond that it shouldn't just disappear when showing the widget.

From what I'm gathering you're seeing the information disappear every time you view thew widget and it fails to update? You're on TeamMacOSX, correct?

[strayduck]

No pattern to the failure yet, the above mentioned data just disappears occasionally and reappears within the following few days (I only reboot my computer once every month or two when apple releases software updates).

I'll keep a closer eye on it and try to figure out if anything special is happening when it fails -- does seem update-related as the same blocks are blank at the same time on my MacBook Pro and Mac Pro.

Yes, I am on Team MacOS X

Cheers.

[VijayPande]

Please make sure your widget obeys the robots.txt on our page (eg do not read any cgi-bin pages).

[pgwalsh]

PROJECT CANCELED AND FILES REMOVED
Unfortunately I have to cancel the project until I can find a third party that will allow me to access their Stats. Vijay Pande has asked me not to access the pages directly and I will obviously comply. I urge you to PLEASE remove your widget until we can find an alternative solution. If you do not remove the widget your IP address may get banned by
Folding@Home. I apologize for the inconvenience.

*Note: All download have been removed from this site.

[strayduck]

While the folding@home project clearly has attracted a large group of very technically-minded donators it seems to me that this project really wants to be larger in scope, inviting in everyday people with CPU to donate to a great cause.

Unfortunately actions like this added on top of software that is opaque and subject to strange and random-seeming failure really feels to me like an act of loathing towards the very people who are donating their resources (and very real $$ when you consider increased electrical bills that can't be written off as charity).

Very disappointed to hear that pande group wants to bring the information (and to some, extra motivation) further back into obscurity.

[pgwalsh]

Strayduck...

Pande group means no harm at all. I was always under the impression they didn't want people crawling the site and I didn't realize the way I access stats was part of that. So if it's anyone's fault, it's my own. They have made these rules very clear, but I just didn't understand them well enough. We will find a solution, it just may take some time.

I apologize for the inconvenience.

[codysluder]

While the folding@home project clearly has attracted a large group of very technically-minded donators it seems to me that this project really wants to be larger in scope, inviting in everyday people with CPU to donate to a great cause.

Unfortunately actions like this added on top of software that is opaque and subject to strange and random-seeming failure really feels to me like an act of loathing towards the very people who are donating their resources (and very real $$ when you consider increased electrical bills that can't be written off as charity).

Very disappointed to hear that pande group wants to bring the information (and to some, extra motivation) further back into obscurity.

This is most definitely not true. They're not pusihing anything into obscurity, they're simply saying that you can have the information any time you want it AS LONG AS YOU ASK FOR IT WHEN YOU WANT IT rather than many, many times per day when you don't really want it.

Scripts which request data that you're not going to look at can put a tremendous load on a database server (and presumably that's the way the Widget was written). We've seen progressive degradation of the stats server performance and progressive discontinuance of optional features awaiting new hardware and the Pande Group is a bit sensitive about things which have contributed to this overload or may do so in the future.

As far as your use of the work "loathing" I see absolutely no evidence of that. Quite the contrary: they're doing their best to encourage everyone to fold. They happen to be rolling out a lot of new code right now and they are more interested in fixing the problems that come up than in coddling individuals who call them names at the drop of a hat, but that doesn't make your accusations true.

[pgwalsh]

Scripts which request data that you're not going to look at can put a tremendous load on a database server (and presumably that's the way the Widget was written).

The scripts do not do that and each section can be turned off if you're not interested in those stats. It also doesn't make requests until you view the widget or until the interval time.

Nonetheless folding@home doesn't want direct access to url's with cgi access regardless if it's a bot or not. No direct access, which is what this widget does. It seemed odd because I could just bookmark the page, but my understanding is that they believe the script could error out and have a malformed url and cause havoc. No one wants havoc. I do not take issues with their request. I just need to find an alternative source for stats.

[strayduck]

Strayduck...

Pande group means no harm at all. I was always under the impression they didn't want people crawling the site and I didn't realize the way I access stats was part of that. So if it's anyone's fault, it's my own. They have made these rules very clear, but I just didn't understand them well enough. We will find a solution, it just may take some time.

I apologize for the inconvenience.

Then it is what it is. I think you've got a really great idea brewing and it will be great to have something along these lines approved by all parties involved. It is clearly a lot of work to simply get the core software working on so many platforms but add-ons like this make really nice touches that make the whole package feel more "complete". It's great to have a nice frame, motor and transmission but most everyday users also like to have a dashboard so they know how fast they're going and how much fuel they've used.

Cheers.

[pgwalsh]

Thanks for the compliment Strayduck. We'll find a solution. You can still used the local information of the widget, but I urge you to turn of the remote stats.

I will release a local client only version until I can find a third party.

[codysluder]

The scripts do not do that and each section can be turned off if you're not interested in those stats. It also doesn't make requests until you view the widget or until the interval time.

So remove the "interval time" That's what I'm talking about when a script asks for something that you're not going to look at. Obviously this could easily be running on a computer which has nobody looking at the screen. If somebody has to click "refresh" to get updated data, it's going to put a much smaller load on the database than if the interval timer keeps updating the information while the owner is sleeping.

[pgwalsh]

Um... Vijay doesn't want me access the URL's with CGI in the address. That's the issue he explained in a PM.

[pgwalsh]

Okay... I have a local information client working with remote stats disabled. I'll upload it this evening.

[strayduck]

While the folding@home project clearly has attracted a large group of very technically-minded donators it seems to me that this project really wants to be larger in scope, inviting in everyday people with CPU to donate to a great cause.

Unfortunately actions like this added on top of software that is opaque and subject to strange and random-seeming failure really feels to me like an act of loathing towards the very people who are donating their resources (and very real $$ when you consider increased electrical bills that can't be written off as charity).

Very disappointed to hear that pande group wants to bring the information (and to some, extra motivation) further back into obscurity.

This is most definitely not true. They're not pusihing anything into obscurity, they're simply saying that you can have the information any time you want it AS LONG AS YOU ASK FOR IT WHEN YOU WANT IT rather than many, many times per day when you don't really want it.

Scripts which request data that you're not going to look at can put a tremendous load on a database server (and presumably that's the way the Widget was written). We've seen progressive degradation of the stats server performance and progressive discontinuance of optional features awaiting new hardware and the Pande Group is a bit sensitive about things which have contributed to this overload or may do so in the future.

As far as your use of the work "loathing" I see absolutely no evidence of that. Quite the contrary: they're doing their best to encourage everyone to fold. They happen to be rolling out a lot of new code right now and they are more interested in fixing the problems that come up than in coddling individuals who call them names at the drop of a hat, but that doesn't make your accusations true.

Don't read me wrong; I love the project and my wish is very much for it to succeed. My phrasing is borne of frustration as I've seen many projects like this fail to cross over that line from obscure techcentric software to something that is truly usable by the masses.

Saying you want people to fold and providing polished, complete, and idiot-proof software are two entirely separate things.

Consider this short list:

- folding@home app is hidden in the system preferences and not accessible quickly like apps
- folding@home app requires a password to turn on and off
- folding@home app give positively no indication that it is running (eg icon in dock). You can nice the process all you want but when your average end user goes to watch a flash video on a website and it starts stuttering they have been done a disservice
- folding@home app can only be configured via command line

Let's not kid ourselves here, these are NOT the makings of a product for the masses. Obviously there are many complexities to overcoming these hurdles that will not be solved in this thread, but to deny them is to limit your possible user base.

As for the topic at hand, my read on this widget thread is that Pande is taking the common engineering stance of being dismissive towards new ideas (that, in this case, offer a plug to a gaping UI hole for free). I could be wrong, but then again, an outsider has only a few threads like this to make a judgement on.

It looks like the developer is more than willing to work *with* pande to make sure he's doing things the "right" way, if there is an easy tech solution you can say "try it this way" instead of "just stop" or presuming that it was done the wrong way without asking.