Folding Forum

Yes! It is exactly the economist article that brought me here.

I've been familiar with folding (SETI has been installed on many a home rig since circa 2002), but it was this article that started me thinking bigger - I'm putting together a proposal to have my company (x0,000 employees worldwide) implement an opt-out folding install on office rigs (folding project TBD), but:

1. can these computing cycles be written off as an expense to charity? Is there evidence of a US business successfully doing this? I've got to offer up an upside to offset the wear on our equipment and the time to install. I saw a few conversations on the tax issue, but no solutions. It seems that it could be possible to deduct the time against the amortized value of the computer over its life as well as the elec. necessary to power over that time.

2. Is there a network install option for most of these projects?

Thanks

7im wrote:Articles from December 6th, both of which will appear in the print edition as well as online...

Playing or processing?

Spreading the load

Thanx for sharing.
No wonder F@H has added an addition 10,000 Teams since July 2007

Peace



"One's destination is never a place but rather a new way of looking at things." Henry Miller

baaj wrote:Yes! It is exactly the economist article that brought me here.

I've been familiar with folding (SETI has been installed on many a home rig since circa 2002), but it was this article that started me thinking bigger - I'm putting together a proposal to have my company (x0,000 employees worldwide) implement an opt-out folding install on office rigs (folding project TBD), but:

1. can these computing cycles be written off as an expense to charity? Is there evidence of a US business successfully doing this? I've got to offer up an upside to offset the wear on our equipment and the time to install. I saw a few conversations on the tax issue, but no solutions. It seems that it could be possible to deduct the time against the amortized value of the computer over its life as well as the elec. necessary to power over that time.

I do not know, it is likely not possible.

2. Is there a network install option for most of these projects?

Maybe this one:
http://fahwiki.net/index.php/FoldingAtWork

Thanks

We've just migrated from another forum which crashed and a lot of the on-line discussions about network installation and taxes are presently off-line. There have been some reasonable network install tools written by 3rd parties. but none that are "official"

Nobody who is a tax professional has given an authoritative response on the tax issue (and it would vary depending on what country you're in) but the general consensus has been that it's not a charitable deduction, but the actual costs such as extra electricity get bundled into general business expenses which end up getting deducted somewhere else.

Good luck with your proposal. We've had reports from a number of similar cases and the percentage which work out are lower than we'd hope. Generally it is shot down by the I.S. department who don't want the added expenses associated with having to eliminate the possibility that some "foreign" application might have caused the problem that they're trying to fix. Our company has a firm policy that all software must be business-related and officially approved and people have been fired for bringing in unapproved software. (It was SETI, not FAH, but I don't think that would have made any difference.)

Like I said: Good luck.

Thanks for the quick replies!

I was afraid of that, but I'm still going to press forward.

I was braced for the 'outside software' conflict/security issue, but felt certain that I could work something out on the tax side (for the USA, by the way). I understand that the electric could be a different code, but the computer time still seems to be a possibility to me, at least in theory.

In the meantime, if anyone else has insight on the tax side, feel free to chime in here. I'll check back here over the next couple of weeks. Hopefully, in the end, I can help to increase your workplace adoption success percentages.

Cheers

[PS apologies for the thread hijack]

baaj wrote:[PS apologies for the thread hijack]

That's easy to fix -- split it into two threads.

Computer time doesn't cost anything except for the electricity the computer uses.

The tax man sees the costs of hardware in one budget item (depreciation), the cost of software in another item, the labor costs (computer support) in another item, and electricity and air-conditioning in another item. (did I forget anything?) Nothing is actually being spend for computer time (or saved if the computer is idle), even if the company chooses to use it as a convenient way to distribute certain costs to other profit centers.

Another hurdle is that there is no monetary value that can be placed on what you donate to Stanford. The WUs you send to Stanford are just bits of data, and have no intrinsic value. The IRS likes to tax things that have value, and it's hard to deduct things that don't have a monetary value.

Better to donate time to the project, or cash to Stanford. There is a way to donate directly on the project web page.

We could consider that hardware (when dedicated to FAH) and electricity costs are donation to project, but most laws won't recognize this as a donation

That's also where the argument breaks down. You didn't donate any electricity to Stanford. You didn't plug in an extension cord and run in over to Vijay's office. You consumed electricity, and donated a work unit. You also have to prove your donation. When's the last time Vijay sent you a receipt for the WUs you donated? No receipt, no value, not deduction. Sorry.

With a little tweaking, this could be a receipt for a donation.
http://fah-web.stanford.edu/awards/cert ... t=wus&bg=3

At our office, the computers are on day and night but they do nothing at night (such a waste when they could be folding!) If they were folding at full CPU utilization they would consume slightly more power (and generate more heat) than they do when they're idle, but even with the nicest IRS auditor in the world would make you compute how much EXTRA electricity went into Folding that wouldn't have been used anyway.

When I use my car to haul old clothes to the Goodwill, I can probably deduct the auto costs for that single trip but that doesn't give me the right to deduct the rest of my auto expenses.

7im wrote:You consumed electricity, and donated a work unit. You also have to prove your donation.

FAHLog maybe? Using your electricity bill & knowing the consumption of the machine, an electricity cost per WU could be worked out.

Assuming it's doing nothing else but Folding.

bruce wrote:Computer time doesn't cost anything.

The tax man sees the costs of hardware in one budget item (depreciation), the cost of software in another item, the labor costs (computer support) in another item, and electricity and air-conditioning in another item. (did I forget anything?) Nothing is actually being spend for computer time (or saved if the computer is idle), even if the company chooses to use it as a convenient way to distribute certain costs to other profit centers.

Modern computers consume a lot more power running flat out like F@H does than they do sitting idle or even doing light work, thanks to programs like ENERGY STAR. And the heat load generated has to be taken away.

So, there is a cost to CPU cycles.

John_Weatherman wrote:FAHLog maybe? Using your electricity bill & knowing the consumption of the machine, an electricity cost per WU could be worked out.

Assuming it's doing nothing else but Folding.

The title and the first post in this topic said that they're wanting to know about installing FAH at a business. The "doing noting else but Folding" is off-topic. If you want to talk about tax deductions for individuals, start a topic (but it has already been explored thoroughly in the Folding-Community.org discussion group and by R&M Collective (a/k/a [Ch]amsalot).)

I'm sure the business managers don't want to waste their time in a tax audit calculating that the computer which was purchases exclusively for business purposes uses a certain amount of power per week without FAH and uses more when running FAH. It's already deductible as a business expense and can't be claimed to be deductible twice by figuring out how much extra it is and it should move from one line in the tax return to another line.

Just a thought...

IMHO the best benefit to folding at a business is the potential marketing factor. Company X donates to FaH for the good of humanity, etc. or whatever spin they wanted to put on it. It will cost them money, but there may be some potential value to them from being viewed as a "good" company. Some companies make a fortune off of these kind of things, others it wouldn't matter a bit.

Take Honda as an example. They have been making "mostly" small, efficient autos for years and now have been cashing in on higher gas prices and the perception of being "greener" then other companies. Folding at a business isn't exactly like this, but you get the point.