Folding Forum

I graduated from college recently and now have to actually pay for my own electricity. I got a taste of this last summer during an internship I had where the monthly energy bill of the cousin I was staying with in Irvine shot up from about $60 to around $240 due to my folding (I reimbursed her, of course) and the lovely tiered system that Southern California Edison uses.

I'm in Irvine full-time, and was wondering if anyone who's on the tiered system under SCE knows of any way to make the bill less painful. Currently I run an i7/GTX 460 desktop (~350W drawn from the wall), a PS3 (which I will probably stop folding on once it reaches 5000 WUs), an i7/GT 230M laptop (may stop folding on that, ~120W for 6000 PPD is not so great), and a QX6700 (never checked actual power draw) that I probably won't run either. That huge bill spike last summer was just from the desktop and laptop, BTW.

I did call SCE and was told there weren't any other options I could take, but I was looking at the time-of-day rate and, doing some calculations, it would seem that since I'd demolish the tier system anyway it'd actually be cheaper to always pay 31 cents/kWh from 10-6 and 17 cents the rest of the day.

I already don't turn on the lights that much, and most of the lights in my apartment are CFL's. The fridge is pretty green, I don't run the dishwasher that often, and I'm currently taking advantage of the relatively low temperatures to cool the place instead of the AC. Basically, I don't think I can replace too much in the way of other electricity-using stuff or cut back a whole lot on those items. I'm mainly looking to see if there are any pricing structures I'm missing, or if I'll just have to tough out the bills that will make the SCE billing department go "Whaaaaaaaaaattt????!" I almost feel like it'd be worth it to go on a medium-size business scheme if they'd let me.

Without purchasing solar energy (which would be great at offsetting the 31c/kWh rate, but just offsetting your 350W i7 would cost $1,400 and take about four and a half years to 'pay back' at 31c/Kwh for 8 hours a day, assuming optimal conditions...) your options are probably fairly limited. What about collecting some cheap deep cycle batteries and making a system that charges them at the lower rate and then discharges them at the peak time to offset your usage?

You could always set window scheduler to operate between certain hours (say engage at 6 and then shut down at 10). But I suspect that that would always result in a much reduced ppd due to the bonus system and only folding for 16 hours a day would limit your opportunities...

I'd recommend a spreadsheet to evaluate the various options. The only options that SCE has that don't involve using less total power is the Time of Use option and the Air Conditioner option. If your place has an A/C and you havn't set it up so they can disable power to it on the peak days of summer, you need to sign up for that. I don't have an A/C, but I have a friend who rarely uses theirs and they save a bundle from letting them cycle the power off when they're not even using it. On those really hot days, you probably spend your days at the office, but if not, you can always spend the day at the Library or the Mall.

If Time-of-use reduces your bonus, you should compare that to removing the GPU and the PS3, both of which are poor in the PPD/W category. Compare a variety of scenarios and do whatever it takes to get yourself out of the higest rate categories and brings the total bill to whatever you set as your limit. A Kill-a-watt meter is essential in figuring out what parts of your farm are the least productive in PPD/W and how many hours you can afford to run the rest.

bruce wrote:I'd recommend a spreadsheet to evaluate the various options. The only options that SCE has that don't involve using less total power is the Time of Use option and the Air Conditioner option. If your place has an A/C and you havn't set it up so they can disable power to it on the peak days of summer, you need to sign up for that. I don't have an A/C, but I have a friend who rarely uses theirs and they save a bundle from letting them cycle the power off when they're not even using it. On those really hot days, you probably spend your days at the office, but if not, you can always spend the day at the Library or the Mall.

I'm not dismissing the idea, but i'm a little concerned about my computer overheating. My i7 already hits the mid-60s C in a reasonable room temperature; I have qualms about it sitting in a room with no cooling when it's 90 degrees outside. Granted, I could have my computer off during the day, but I'd prefer to not go that route.

k1wi wrote:Without purchasing solar energy (which would be great at offsetting the 31c/kWh rate, but just offsetting your 350W i7 would cost $1,400 and take about four and a half years to 'pay back' at 31c/Kwh for 8 hours a day, assuming optimal conditions...) your options are probably fairly limited. What about collecting some cheap deep cycle batteries and making a system that charges them at the lower rate and then discharges them at the peak time to offset your usage?

Yeah, I'm not sure solar works for me right now, especially since I haven't accrued much money yet. Also not sure if I'd be allowed to put it on the roof (though the fact that I'm on the top floor means I actually have a roof).

How complicated and/or potentially dangerous would the deep cycle battery-only thing be? I was briefly looking up deep-cycle batteries and could have sworn something said not to put it inside a house, but that may be wrong. This is an apartment, so all I've got really is the apartment itself and a small balcony.

Zagen30 wrote:How complicated and/or potentially dangerous would the deep cycle battery-only thing be? I was briefly looking up deep-cycle batteries and could have sworn something said not to put it inside a house, but that may be wrong. This is an apartment, so all I've got really is the apartment itself and a small balcony.

Probably fairly complicated as you'd need an inverter in order to convert between AC and DC plus I think maybe a controller to prevent the batteries from overcharging... Plus there would be a degree of inefficiency that comes from converting to AC, storing in a battery and then converting back into AC... Probably more of a conceptual solution rather than a simple, practical solution!

Zagen30 wrote:I'm not dismissing the idea, but i'm a little concerned about my computer overheating.

Then you should consider Bruce's other idea. Stop folding on the GPU. Every couple of years I give GPU folding a try and I'm always disappointed by the PPD/Watt. I bought a couple GTX 460 cards last fall and just shut them down for the summer because of high summer electric rates. I won't be folding on them again. I'm shipping them to my son.

I have seven i7 920 machines shut down for the summer as well but I'm very happy with the PPD they earn running bigadv and the relatively small amount of electricity they use when folding.

k1wi wrote:

Zagen30 wrote:How complicated and/or potentially dangerous would the deep cycle battery-only thing be? I was briefly looking up deep-cycle batteries and could have sworn something said not to put it inside a house, but that may be wrong. This is an apartment, so all I've got really is the apartment itself and a small balcony.

Probably fairly complicated as you'd need an inverter in order to convert between AC and DC plus I think maybe a controller to prevent the batteries from overcharging... Plus there would be a degree of inefficiency that comes from converting to AC, storing in a battery and then converting back into AC... Probably more of a conceptual solution rather than a simple, practical solution!

The most common batteries are flooded lead acid. Their outgassing produces hydrogen, the same gas the Hindenberg was filled with. Not what you want in your house. If you're going to put a battery inside, make sure it's sealed.

Actually, this might be possible using a regular UPS if the batteries are matched well. Plug it in during off-peak to run the computer and recharge, unplug during peak hours and let the computer run on battery power.

In a condo/apartment, you probably don't own the roof. (It belongs to the association.) Solar would only work in a single-family-residence.

Don't even consider batteries. There's no real point to store energy unless you are far enough back in the canyons that you don't have power from SCEdison. If you generate more than you use during the day, the meter runs backwards and then runs forward again during the night so you're billed for the net that you use.

codysluder wrote:If you generate more than you use during the day, the meter runs backwards and then runs forward again during the night so you're billed for the net that you use.

Or if you're really lucky you get a check from the electric company.