Folding Forum

Neil-B wrote:It is not the mention of fah but the inspection of traffic that needs settings change .. from what I have gleened it is something in the nature of how Kaspersky does its traffic inspection that leads it under certain circumstances and with certain comms messages to alter them in a way that means they are not received/understood by FaH ... think of it a bit like spam labeling where the subject line of the email gets altered to include spam - it seems as if certain messages hit the dpi heuristics in a any that means they are altered by K.

As to mining bitcoin, whilst you are free to believe what you wish and you have now stated his more than once I would point out that even the thought that this might be happening is damaging to fah by association - FaH is a out folding peoteins and completing science and that is what people support whereas mining doesn't advance science or support knowledge generation.

Having inspected the science logs of the 18202 wus my kit quite happily folds and uploads I cannot see this as even a remote possibility !! ... add to that the loading profiles on my gpus and system for p18202 are wholly at odds with those that would be displayed if my kit was mining leads me to hope that your allegations of fah mining bitcoin are simply in jest ... all I can advise is that various experienced members of the volunteer folding support community have all concluded your issues are most likely down to Kaspersky but without testing this we will never know.

I am sure that the FaH team will continue to monitor/the servers but if the comms are getting interfered with or altered after they are sent out by the WS/CS then there is little they can do

I hope this resolves itself soon.

I don't know enough to disagree but what I get stuck on is why would it only seem to be happening, at least my case, on two projects numbers? Couldn't that mean something in the project's programming or its output is at fault? If that is the case should every user be required to uninstall "K" or should the WU be modified? Could it be due to a particular type of video card or model's interaction with those WUs that fail? What video card were you using that worked with those Projects? I'm running an Asus 2060 Super. Could it be a problem with Windows 7 that I'm running that card on? What OS are you using?

Now I don't think my other computer is running "K" I'll have to check and if it isn't a better test might be to add it to that computer but since it is running a 3090 and running on Windows 10 I'm not sure it would be a valid test and I'm not even sure if it has ever had WUs from either of the 2 Project in question.

Is uninstalling "K" a good idea? Is it the actual root cause of the problem or is it a bandaid? Why aren't every WUs having the same problem?

As I said, I'm not qualified to argue with you on any of the actual technical issues and I'm not even sure the logic I used above is correct. Am I really off base or missing something, please let me know?

I had not considered that anyone would take my mentions of "coins" seriously or could think I did! I guess I was wrong and they apparently did and could cause harm so I will refrain from using that attempt of a joke in the future!!!

Craig wrote:I don't know enough to disagree but what I get stuck on is why would it only seem to be happening, at least my case, on two projects numbers? Couldn't that mean something in the project's programming or its output is at fault? If that is the case should every user be required to uninstall "K" or should the WU be modified? Could it be due to a particular type of video card or model's interaction with those WUs that fail? What video card were you using that worked with those Projects? I'm running an Asus 2060 Super. Could it be a problem with Windows 7 that I'm running that card on? What OS are you using?

Now I don't think my other computer is running "K" I'll have to check and if it isn't a better test might be to add it to that computer but since it is running a 3090 and running on Windows 10 I'm not sure it would be a valid test and I'm not even sure if it has ever had WUs from either of the 2 Project in question.

Is uninstalling "K" a good idea? Is it the actual root cause of the problem or is it a bandaid? Why aren't every WUs having the same problem?

As I said, I'm not qualified to argue with you on any of the actual technical issues and I'm not even sure the logic I used above is correct. Am I really off base or missing something, please let me know?

I had not considered that anyone would take my mentions of "coins" seriously or could think I did! I guess I was wrong and they apparently did and could cause harm so I will refrain from using that attempt of a joke in the future!!!

Firstly, Big Thanks for clarifying the mining bitcoin thoughts were not seriously meant

I am not suggesting uninstalling K - quite the opposite I believe it is a setting thing (see more below) ... To try and answer each of your questions:

Why would it only seem to be happening, at least my case, on two projects numbers?

... because av/security products use "alchemy"/heuristics to guess if things are damaging and sometimes a combination of factors even including such things as text strings or isp[ routings can cause issues ... please note that the two project numbers you are having issues with are run by different servers (fairly sure at different locations ... a flip side question would be if it is a server issue why would it not be happening to everyone (or even most people) folding those projects?

Couldn't that mean something in the project's programming or its output is at fault?

... absolutely it could ... but if it were so then as mentioned in previous it would probably be much wider spread as an issue ... this comes down to balance of likelihoods and tbh give what I am seeing this is not the most likely

If that is the case should every user be required to uninstall "K" or should the WU be modified?

... no - if it is a server side issue then FaH team would need to address/sort out

Could it be due to a particular type of video card or model's interaction with those WUs that fail?

... again it possibly could (but really long shot) ... but again this is quite unlikely - comms issues (which this does appear to be) are really not likely to be gpu related but one can't rule it out - one would expect however that there would be a predominance of reports of XXX gpu setups failing - which there don't appear to have been.

What video card were you using that worked with those Projects?

... personally using three various cards (RTX3070, GTX750Ti, Quadro M1000M) - none have issues ... but as previous I think this may be a very long shot cause of what seems to be a comms issue.

Could it be a problem with Windows 7 that I'm running that card on?

... this possibly might be one of the factors that plays into this as it might be a factor in how the version of Kaspersky you are running interacts ... unlikely to be the main cause - as if all Win7 folders had this issue then reports would be flooding in.

What OS are you using?

... all my kit runs Win 10 pro latest builds ... but to be honest I believe the OS will be a very minor (if at all factor) - and I am fairly sure that other folders who have experienced this type of issue have been running a variety of OS/versions - the common factor doesn't appear to normally be OS but the use of Kaspersky/Bitdefender - hence why I (and others keep harping on about it, sorry !!

Is uninstalling "K" a good idea? Is it the actual root cause of the problem or is it a bandaid?

... if it is K traffic Monitoring injecting/changing the messaging from the server (as various people suspect) then yes it might be the actual cause of the problem)

In summary

I wouldn't add Kaspersky to your other machine just to test as this would most likely be inconclusive since many setups with K have no issues - hence why this is a pain to diagnose/remediate ... obviously if you want the protection of K on that machine then that is a different matter and I wouldn't let the issues you currently have with the Win7 setup stop you.

As a quick test (to avoid uninstalling/reinstalling) Turning off the Network Monitoring Settings https://support.kaspersky.com/common/settings/13830 and then rebooting (after pausing/finishing FaH slots) would test if it is the network traffic monitoring ... Hopefully all blocked wus should clear (this is what has happened for others anecdotally) - but even that might (under certain circumstances) not happen - The WUs in your backlog have all probably been received (on first attempt) by the WS/CS and so might still get stuck in the loop ... If it doesn't clear them (or even if it does) you can then restart network monitoring and restore your full protections.

For me uninstalling K would be a final test (if all else fails) and one I wouldn't do lightly (as I would have installed K in the first place specifically because I wanted it to protect my kit) ... However uninstalling and then rebooting/running the kit is run for a short period of time might provide one last check - I might not choose to leave it uninstalled for long though and would reinstall it even if it did resolve the issue - and would then report this to Kaspersky support so the can remediate the issue (which may be down to a change in a signature or part of how their traffic monitoring heuristic works (think folders have done this in the past).

Using the WU status app it is possible to check if your WUs have actually been received - If they have then you can delete the working folders (ask if you want instructions) and they will no longer exist/appear in the web/advanced control interfaces and no longer keep loading your network.

TBH I am not trying to argue - simply help you resolve this ... If anyone actually knew the precise technical details of what is happening the world would be a better place and maybe a permanent resolution could be found - unfortunately all we have is quite a strong association between Kaspersky/Bitdefender/other Traffic Monitoring programs and an intermittent comms issue that in most cases appears that Final WU Upload status messages sent out from the servers are not received by the FaHClient.

AFAIK the FaH team do check the severs if this type of issue happens - and server side comms issues with overloading and other problems do occur - but the pattern of reports/complaints (even "abuse" !!) that happens if the servers are the problem tend to make it very obvious it is a server problem !!

Good Luck ... I keep my fingers crossed that by whatever means this issue gets/is resolved asap for you as has been going on long enough that it must be driving you nuts !!

Neil-B wrote:

Craig wrote:I don't know enough to disagree but what I get stuck on is why would it only seem to be happening, at least my case, on two projects numbers? Couldn't that mean something in the project's programming or its output is at fault? If that is the case should every user be required to uninstall "K" or should the WU be modified? Could it be due to a particular type of video card or model's interaction with those WUs that fail? What video card were you using that worked with those Projects? I'm running an Asus 2060 Super. Could it be a problem with Windows 7 that I'm running that card on? What OS are you using?

Now I don't think my other computer is running "K" I'll have to check and if it isn't a better test might be to add it to that computer but since it is running a 3090 and running on Windows 10 I'm not sure it would be a valid test and I'm not even sure if it has ever had WUs from either of the 2 Project in question.

Is uninstalling "K" a good idea? Is it the actual root cause of the problem or is it a bandaid? Why aren't every WUs having the same problem?

As I said, I'm not qualified to argue with you on any of the actual technical issues and I'm not even sure the logic I used above is correct. Am I really off base or missing something, please let me know?

I had not considered that anyone would take my mentions of "coins" seriously or could think I did! I guess I was wrong and they apparently did and could cause harm so I will refrain from using that attempt of a joke in the future!!!

Firstly, Big Thanks for clarifying the mining bitcoin thoughts were not seriously meant

I am not suggesting uninstalling K - quite the opposite I believe it is a setting thing (see more below) ... To try and answer each of your questions:

Why would it only seem to be happening, at least my case, on two projects numbers?

... because av/security products use "alchemy"/heuristics to guess if things are damaging and sometimes a combination of factors even including such things as text strings or isp[ routings can cause issues ... please note that the two project numbers you are having issues with are run by different servers (fairly sure at different locations ... a flip side question would be if it is a server issue why would it not be happening to everyone (or even most people) folding those projects?

Couldn't that mean something in the project's programming or its output is at fault?

... absolutely it could ... but if it were so then as mentioned in previous it would probably be much wider spread as an issue ... this comes down to balance of likelihoods and tbh give what I am seeing this is not the most likely

If that is the case should every user be required to uninstall "K" or should the WU be modified?

... no - if it is a server side issue then FaH team would need to address/sort out

Could it be due to a particular type of video card or model's interaction with those WUs that fail?

... again it possibly could (but really long shot) ... but again this is quite unlikely - comms issues (which this does appear to be) are really not likely to be gpu related but one can't rule it out - one would expect however that there would be a predominance of reports of XXX gpu setups failing - which there don't appear to have been.

What video card were you using that worked with those Projects?

... personally using three various cards (RTX3070, GTX750Ti, Quadro M1000M) - none have issues ... but as previous I think this may be a very long shot cause of what seems to be a comms issue.

Could it be a problem with Windows 7 that I'm running that card on?

... this possibly might be one of the factors that plays into this as it might be a factor in how the version of Kaspersky you are running interacts ... unlikely to be the main cause - as if all Win7 folders had this issue then reports would be flooding in.

What OS are you using?

... all my kit runs Win 10 pro latest builds ... but to be honest I believe the OS will be a very minor (if at all factor) - and I am fairly sure that other folders who have experienced this type of issue have been running a variety of OS/versions - the common factor doesn't appear to normally be OS but the use of Kaspersky/Bitdefender - hence why I (and others keep harping on about it, sorry !!

Is uninstalling "K" a good idea? Is it the actual root cause of the problem or is it a bandaid?

... if it is K traffic Monitoring injecting/changing the messaging from the server (as various people suspect) then yes it might be the actual cause of the problem)

In summary

I wouldn't add Kaspersky to your other machine just to test as this would most likely be inconclusive since many setups with K have no issues - hence why this is a pain to diagnose/remediate ... obviously if you want the protection of K on that machine then that is a different matter and I wouldn't let the issues you currently have with the Win7 setup stop you.

As a quick test (to avoid uninstalling/reinstalling) Turning off the Network Monitoring Settings https://support.kaspersky.com/common/settings/13830 and then rebooting (after pausing/finishing FaH slots) would test if it is the network traffic monitoring ... Hopefully all blocked wus should clear (this is what has happened for others anecdotally) - but even that might (under certain circumstances) not happen - The WUs in your backlog have all probably been received (on first attempt) by the WS/CS and so might still get stuck in the loop ... If it doesn't clear them (or even if it does) you can then restart network monitoring and restore your full protections.

For me uninstalling K would be a final test (if all else fails) and one I wouldn't do lightly (as I would have installed K in the first place specifically because I wanted it to protect my kit) ... However uninstalling and then rebooting/running the kit is run for a short period of time might provide one last check - I might not choose to leave it uninstalled for long though and would reinstall it even if it did resolve the issue - and would then report this to Kaspersky support so the can remediate the issue (which may be down to a change in a signature or part of how their traffic monitoring heuristic works (think folders have done this in the past).

Using the WU status app it is possible to check if your WUs have actually been received - If they have then you can delete the working folders (ask if you want instructions) and they will no longer exist/appear in the web/advanced control interfaces and no longer keep loading your network.

TBH I am not trying to argue - simply help you resolve this ... If anyone actually knew the precise technical details of what is happening the world would be a better place and maybe a permanent resolution could be found - unfortunately all we have is quite a strong association between Kaspersky/Bitdefender/other Traffic Monitoring programs and an intermittent comms issue that in most cases appears that Final WU Upload status messages sent out from the servers are not received by the FaHClient.

AFAIK the FaH team do check the severs if this type of issue happens - and server side comms issues with overloading and other problems do occur - but the pattern of reports/complaints (even "abuse" !!) that happens if the servers are the problem tend to make it very obvious it is a server problem !!

Good Luck ... I keep my fingers crossed that by whatever means this issue gets/is resolved asap for you as has been going on long enough that it must be driving you nuts !!

Obviously, I'm a moron, it was fz4z (I think) that suggests uninstalling K. Please accept my apology! This is the 2nd time I've replied to the wrong person my old brain needs to be updated but I spent all my money on damn video cards for FAH! And yes I've checked and I know the WUs are showing complete, as someone kindly posted a link earlier!

I've had this problem a couple of times before and usually rebooting without any other changes the stuck WUs disappeared but I wasn't paying any attention to Projects or Collection Servers at that point. But when I tried rebooting when I noticed I had a couple of 18202 projects stuck they stayed stuck and were using the same servers! The next time I had a 17601 added to the stuck WUs and it also stayed after a reboot. I now have 2 of the 10 stuck WUs on that Project!

After reading your post (assuming I am actually replying to the correct person this time) my plan is to "Finish" the WU it is now on, as it is another 17601, just to see if it gets the same error as the others. If it does I will just try just a simple reboot which I expect won't do anything helpful but just want to try to possibly rule anything out. If anything is still stuck I will follow your advice and turn off the network settings in K and then reboot again and see what happens. If they are still stuck I guess my best/only viable option then is to delete the working folders and I would appreciate the directions!!!

The work unit should be completed soon and might have been completed while I've been writing this rant.

I certainly appreciate the time you took to answer the questions that I meant to send to another person and the suggestions you've given me. I'll update this thread when I’ve got some info on what happened!
Thanks again, your post was exactly what I wanted and I DID reply to the exact right guy after all!

Craig wrote:Oh, I just noticed I've got a new instance of one of the Project 17601 WUs is folding! I've currently got 2 of those projects caught in the "infinite upload loop". Can't wait for it to finish and see if it completes correctly this time! Every other WUs except for those running Projects 17601 and 18202 complete correctly for me! I'll bet it doesn't, any takers?

Those work units often upload, but with the server failing to acknowledge them (which, could be a server issue or a local one, I never worked that out). It's worth checking your stats on https://stats.foldingathome.org/donor to see if the last unit to award points ties in with the last time a unit completed (it mat not show up for 30 minutes). I'm not sure how to check specific wu though, so hopefully someone else will tell you that). If you find you have been awarded points for work that is still trying to upload, you can delete the wu from the work folder.

You might find your solution wil be a combination of two things ... one is resolving the short response issue - and that is the tricky one ... then once that is sorted clearing the backlog queue of already uploaded wus is relatively easy - rebooting may do this, especially if the wus are past their expiration deadline - the client may even drop them without rebooting as they pass the expiration deadline - and you also have the option to delete the work folders for these wus from thd fahclient directory.

I seem to recall that having too many wus queued can cause issues getting new ones (I may be wrong on this) ... but if you do find this happening before they start to clear the you may want to clear them out using the deletion option - feel free to ask if you want to do that and need help

debs3759 wrote:I'm not sure how to check specific wu though, so hopefully someone else will tell you that). If you find you have been awarded points for work that is still trying to upload, you can delete the wu from the work folder.

There is a WU status app that does this - link to it is somewhere in the thread above (typing on phone so not easy to copy/paste, sorry).

Sorry it's taken me so long to post my reply to Neil-B. I thought it had posted before I started the reboot stuff. Anyway here is what happened.

I decided to do a shut down instead of a reboot and let the PC get a bit of a rest before restarting. I waited about 15 minutes and restarted it. When it came back up the app looked odd was totally grayed out and I couldn't click anywhere. There was a message saying "Updating Inactive". I've never had that happen but OK, it's a small app it shouldn't take much time. Well, it just sat there, I wasn't seeing action on my network from that PC and according to Task Manager there wasn't much if any activity on the CPU or RAM. Well crap! I gave it a while to see what would happen but nothing did. So I did a reboot this time and the FAH app came up looking normal but "Oh Boy" was there activity all 11 WUs seemed to be trying to upload their data at the same time. I decided to go get lunch. When I got back I noticed a couple of the WUs had disappeared and the log showed they had been completed successfully, which of course they had a couple of days ago. I fell asleep watching the log file fill up LOL! When I woke up they were all gone but no activity because I had the app set to Finish so that was a relief and when I clicked the GPU to fold it started right up and was back to work! I didn't do anything to "K" or anything else. I was even able to turn Folding back on for my CPU which I had turned off because it was showing 2 days to complete a WU, maybe because of all the uploading, I've got no idea why but it is working and my GPU has finished its first WU!!! So thanks to everyone who read or responded especially Neil B for his great explanations that this dumbass could understand! BUT (there is always a BUT it seems), the very next WU my GPU got was the &^$#$^*&^%$@^ dreaded Project 18202 WU which will likely go into its multiple upload thing. Neil, if you would be so kind to post or send me the instructions to kill that beast after I confirm it was completed correctly I would certainly appreciate it and, Thanks again for your patience with me! Good Folding Everyone!!!

Great News ... At least you have some clear space and nothing stacked up loading your network with attempts to send !!

Fingers crossed it won't have the issue - it is entirely possible that the reboot may have kicked whatever the issue was into touch (I am an optimist at heart) but if it doesn't I'll either type up instructions for finding/deleteing the wu work folder or post a link to where someone has already done this ... I will however be a tad cheeky if I may and leave this until tomorrow to do as it is a bit past midnight here and I'd prefer to be a bit more awake than I currently am before doing instructions to make sure I don't miss anything - if I find them already written up (I can search in my sleep) I will post link.

If it is still happening (and I really hope it isn't) then going down the route of testing if it is the K. Network Monitoring issue - as/when/if you feel up to it - but lets hope this isn't needed

You may find the instructions in Joe_H's post are enough to guide you through deleting the folders https://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php? ... er#p346838 if not shout and I'll try to flesh them out.

Neil-B wrote:Great News ... At least you have some clear space and nothing stacked up loading your network with attempts to send !!

I will however be a tad cheeky if I may and leave this until tomorrow to do as it is a bit past midnight here and I'd prefer to be a bit more awake than I currently am before doing instructions to make sure I don't miss anything - if I find them already written up (I can search in my sleep) I will post link.

And 4 minutes later you post a link LOL! The only thing I do when I sleep is drooling... You are a great Human, sleeping and awake!

When I woke up this morning my app was clear of any lingering WUs! The apps current log didn't show any instance of either of the WUs I was having trouble with so I haven't had a chance to test if turning off the "Network Monitoring Settings" but I will the first time I get a stuck WU as I'd really like to help solve this problem for everyone, assuming it hasn't been fixed already. I would have to look into that as I'm not sure that doesn't sound like something I'd want off all the time but I certainly wouldn't mind turning on for a brief time to unstick the WU. It seems interesting that it always fails on the very last part of the upload but I guess that is when the app gets told all is good.

The directions for deleting the WU seem pretty clear except I'm unable to find a work directory in Programs(86)\FAHClient, AppData Roaming or Local on the Windows 7 System. I did find one on the Windows 10 PC. Am I correct in guessing he is talking about the 01 02 etc for the WU number in the queue?

Thanks again for all your help Neil-B!!!

Craig wrote:And 4 minutes later you post a link LOL! The only thing I do when I sleep is drooling... You are a great Human, sleeping and awake!

When I woke up this morning my app was clear of any lingering WUs! The apps current log didn't show any instance of either of the WUs I was having trouble with so I haven't had a chance to test if turning off the "Network Monitoring Settings" but I will the first time I get a stuck WU as I'd really like to help solve this problem for everyone, assuming it hasn't been fixed already. I would have to look into that as I'm not sure that doesn't sound like something I'd want off all the time but I certainly wouldn't mind turning on for a brief time to unstick the WU. It seems interesting that it always fails on the very last part of the upload but I guess that is when the app gets told all is good.

The directions for deleting the WU seem pretty clear except I'm unable to find a work directory in Programs(86)\FAHClient, AppData Roaming or Local on the Windows 7 System. I did find one on the Windows 10 PC. Am I correct in guessing he is talking about the 01 02 etc for the WU number in the queue?

Thanks again for all your help Neil-B!!!

Great News about the issue at least for now seeming to be clear - if it crops up again we can try working on resolving it

The client folder location can be checked by clicking on the system tab in the advanced client (between the work status tab and the logs tab) ... in what I think is the 4th section of the information "System" there is "CWD" (Current Working Directory) in that folder (should end in \FAHClient if set as default during install iirc) there will be a sub folder "work" and this is where the WU working folders are generated and stored (they get deleted by the FAHClient when the WU has been uploaded (you will see a "cleaning up" message in the logs which I believe is when this happens if things are working normally.

iirc the default for win 7 CWD used to be "C:/Users/[User_Name]/AppData/Roaming/FAHClient" but /Appdata is/was a hidden folder and only visible if your file explorerm is set to show these so navigating to it can be less than intuitive ... but use the above advanced control check and you will know for sure ... if you type into the header of file explorer precisely what you see there and hit return you should get to the right folder

In the status tab of advanced control each of the WUs in the Work Queue pane has an ID at the left end - 01, 02, etc. depending on how many are in the stack - that is the number that equates to the numbered folders in the \FAHClient\work folder

Neil-B wrote:
Great News about the issue at least for now seeming to be clear - if it crops up again we can try working on resolving it

The client folder location can be checked by clicking on the system tab in the advanced client (between the work status tab and the logs tab) ... in what I think is the 4th section of the information "System" there is "CWD" (Current Working Directory) in that folder (should end in \FAHClient if set as default during install iirc) there will be a sub folder "work" and this is where the WU working folders are generated and stored (they get deleted by the FAHClient when the WU has been uploaded (you will see a "cleaning up" message in the logs which I believe is when this happens if things are working normally.

iirc the default for win 7 CWD used to be "C:/Users/[User_Name]/AppData/Roaming/FAHClient" but /Appdata is/was a hidden folder and only visible if your file explorerm is set to show these so navigating to it can be less than intuitive ... but use the above advanced control check and you will know for sure ... if you type into the header of file explorer precisely what you see there and hit return you should get to the right folder

In the status tab of advanced control each of the WUs in the Work Queue pane has an ID at the left end - 01, 02, etc. depending on how many are in the stack - that is the number that equates to the numbered folders in the \FAHClient\work folder

Found that darn directory, thanks!

I did just get a Project 18202 WU on that PC so we should have some data in a while! If it gets stuck in a loop again I'll try turning off the Network Monitoring. I'll post the results regardless! It will take a while as the video card in that PC takes a while to process those.

OK, I got a stuck another 18202 and changed K per your earlier link. The problem is that you must reboot for the change in K to take effect. Since the WU will also often complete on a reboot, which is exactly what happened, it doesn't mean much. I guess the next time I need to make the change before the WU completes but I have had them complete occasionally on the first try. Do you think it is worthwhile for me to give that a try? I have put FAH as a trusted domain but I have no idea if that domain has anything to do with their Collection Server.

That is a really tough one ... and I'm not sure my answer will help but I'll "Think out Loud" and see if that helps.

If the Win 7 machine is only used for FaH (and other non consequential stuff) then I'd just turn the K monitoring off and leave it for a while and see if any future 18202s have issues - if they do then it isn't the K monitoring !! ... if you get no more issues then there is a strong correlation that it may be the cause (the more 18202s you get with no issues the stronger the correlation) ... then you have a choice to either run with K monitoring and reboot occasionally as/when the stack gets to full or leave it off until you don't see any more 18202s coming through.

The K problems also seem to be a bit ephemeral so I my guess has been that as K updates/patches itself these issues come and go so leaving K monitoring on may initially mean rebooting occasionally but you will notice as/when the problems "disappear"

If however the Win 7 machine is used for stuff where you want "full protection" (or as full as you can reasonably achieve) then turning K Monitoring off may be something you choose not to do (you would still have the K AV functioning but that might not be as much as you would prefer) and you would simply need to reboot occasionally as your fix (until the day everything just starts not having issues).

Hopefully someone who uses K and has had these issues and worked through them and knows what settings they used to resolve this will weigh in and help you better than I can !!

I got a PM from a FAH guy that said he had been monitoring this thread and was glad we found that rebooting was the solution and did not appear too interested in going any deeper especially since that PC is running Windows 7. He's probably right that it wouldn't be worth their time to fix it if it is only a Windows 7 problem with K or just W7 in general. So there doesn't seem to be any reason for either of us to waste any more time on this. I'll just go back to only checking that PC every other once in a while. Maybe I'll beat my record of 11 WUs caught in the loop. If you feel differently I'm game to go on but at this point it would seem to just be out of curiosity! The damn PC is working on another 18202 I wish my 3090 would get them as it seems to get easier WUs than the 2060 LOL!