Folding Forum

Dark Pulse wrote:..., but I'd like to think that a person shouldn't be able to zoom up that high in such a short span of time.

Basically there is not much anyone can do to make one stick to any DC project for a very long time. You either accept the goals what take a long time to develop or you soon move on. That is it. The PG can program their software as well as possible, but donator is free to uninstall the client and that is end of the story for them. But as each completed WU is a good WU then even if 98% of donators are here only briefly then WUs they still complete by them are still valuable contribution to the project.

How to make the donator to keep on folding a little longer?

You people make my 500 points a day look pathetic!

Ivoshiee wrote:

Dark Pulse wrote:..., but I'd like to think that a person shouldn't be able to zoom up that high in such a short span of time.

Basically there is not much anyone can do to make one stick to any DC project for a very long time. You either accept the goals what take a long time to develop or you soon move on. That is it. The PG can program their software as well as possible, but donator is free to uninstall the client and that is end of the story for them. But as each completed WU is a good WU then even if 98% of donators are here only briefly then WUs they still complete by them are still valuable contribution to the project.

How to make the donator to keep on folding a little longer?

When I worked as a research assistant for a Phd organic chemistry research group similar to Pande's, I made a small stipend over the summer. It was not much money at all. I struggle to remember how much it was, maybe $700 for 3 months. Clearly, non profit organizations can pay money to their workers. How much could the Pande group pay for processing time before the numbers get stupidly large? I'm thinking about pennies per hour, just like the electricity cost.

Say a folder has to reach a certain threshold, to keep out the "riff raff". Once you hit that threshold (whatever it is), you then qualify for a small payment.

The more points you score, the higher your payment. That would put an incentive to those who can operate high powered fast machines. Me with my dinky laptop, not so much. But I fold because I know the science behind it. I'm an outlier. Dedicated folders like myself would be free to turn down such money and let it go to those who need such incentives to keep number crunching.

Of course, this adds to the Pande groups costs, but if it yielded more and more data, would that not be the entire point (using grant money to get results)?

RMouse wrote:You people make my 500 points a day look pathetic!

It still counts, and don't think of it as pathetic

Off topic : you are using a core 2 duo with a GPU? My pentium dual core (which should be a bit slower than a core 2 duo) is capable of 1000-1200 PPD on its own, with project 8013 or 8042 if I remember correctly.
I'm not saying this is the reason, but you may want to try FAH on linux, it gives better PPD for me.

That's another thing I forgot... 64-bit people on Linux get higher PPD; there's no 64-bit Windows builds yet so I'm definitely losing points (and folding time) due to this.

Realistically, if the Kepler core stuff is well-optimized, and a 64-bit CPU client is released, I may well be able to get over 100,000 points a day with dual 690s (which is 4 GPUs, I will note) and my overclocked 2600K.

Granted, the GPUs alone will set you back $2000 for two. Not an option for a lot of people, and if certain events in my life hadn't happened, it wouldn't be an option for me either.

RMouse wrote:Say a folder has to reach a certain threshold, to keep out the "riff raff". Once you hit that threshold (whatever it is), you then qualify for a small payment.

The more points you score, the higher your payment. That would put an incentive to those who can operate high powered fast machines. Me with my dinky laptop, not so much. But I fold because I know the science behind it. I'm an outlier. Dedicated folders like myself would be free to turn down such money and let it go to those who need such incentives to keep number crunching.

Of course, this adds to the Pande groups costs, but if it yielded more and more data, would that not be the entire point (using grant money to get results)?

...I don't know about that. To me that'd be an awful lot of bookkeeping for one, and for two, how the heck do you determine what is a "fair" amount? It obviously can't be too small of an amount or there would be no incentive anyway... but there are some people out there who have point values in the nine-figures range (one of them is on my team, in fact). What do you wind up doing, giving them hundreds or potentially thousands of dollars just because they somehow had either the time or the network to hit 8 or 9 digit figures easily?

Plus, really, I don't think Pande would have the sorts of resources/funding needed in order to do that. And it still doesn't solve that people may fold just up until they hit that threshold and then quit. Yes, they are still donating time and workunits, but it's, if anything, more abusable when something like that happens.

Not to mention it will make those donors who don't have rippingly fast hardware feel undervalued and underappreciated when they're making a few hundred or a few thousand points a day while some people can literally run circles around them because they have the latest and greatest, so they will wind up quitting, which is bad because there is still important science to be done even on the smaller units.

RMouse wrote:You people make my 500 points a day look pathetic!

It's been stated above, but needs repeating.....

All finished WUs are good WUs.

PPD isn't as important as commitment to the project. That 500 PPD will add up quickly if you keep at it.

Dark Pulse wrote:That's another thing I forgot... 64-bit people on Linux get higher PPD; there's no 64-bit Windows builds yet so I'm definitely losing points (and folding time) due to this.

Realistically, if the Kepler core stuff is well-optimized, and a 64-bit CPU client is released, I may well be able to get over 100,000 points a day with dual 690s (which is 4 GPUs, I will note) and my overclocked 2600K.

Unfortunately a 64bit client won't make a difference to your folding speed. It would only come in handy if the client needed to access more than 4GB of RAM, but I am not sure that any core does as yet.

Dark Pulse wrote:That's another thing I forgot... 64-bit people on Linux get higher PPD; there's no 64-bit Windows builds yet so I'm definitely losing points (and folding time) due to this.

Realistically, if the Kepler core stuff is well-optimized, and a 64-bit CPU client is released, I may well be able to get over 100,000 points a day with dual 690s (which is 4 GPUs, I will note) and my overclocked 2600K.

I remember there was a thread about 32 vs 64 bit, and they don't differ much, if at all. CMIIW. I can't find that thread now, it's some time ago.

Hm, strange. How are the people on Linux getting several thousand more PPD than Windows folks on higher-end processors?

At least, it's what I heard. And it obviously can't be due to just -bigadv, like it was half a year ago.

If I'm inadvertently spreading lies and slander, I apologize in advance.

Most likely it's a slightly newer core

Well, it mostly would only matter for CPU-based stuff. Obviously, the guys with GPUs have the game on them there since the Linux client can't support those yet... at least, from what I've read.

Either way, as long as the folding's being done, doesn't matter how. Everyone benefits in the end, especially if this means we might have cures for these diseases if they afflict us later in life. I know I'd be terrified if I were diagnosed with Alzheimer's.

But until they get a cure, the best way to keep it off is to keep the mind active. So I do lots of writing and puzzles when I'm not blowing people up!

RMouse wrote:You people make my 500 points a day look pathetic!

It doesn't matter. you fold with the equipment that you can afford to fold on. Nobody expects anyone to go out and build a farm of high powered machines unless they want to and can afford to.
Look at it another way, Your 500PPD is a WU or 2 a day on you everyday machine, Now smeone may get 500k PPD on a quad CPU machine but they still only do one or two WU a day.

I started out at a few hundred PPD as did many others, there are others still folding who got a whopping 5-10 PPD

Dark Pulse wrote:Hm, strange. How are the people on Linux getting several thousand more PPD than Windows folks on higher-end processors?

At least, it's what I heard. And it obviously can't be due to just -bigadv, like it was half a year ago.

If I'm inadvertently spreading lies and slander, I apologize in advance.

Its swings and round abouts. There was a time when -bigadv was restricted to windows only due to problems with the core running on linux.

Linux is an inherently fast, very optomised OS that has received lots more tweaks by the community, due in part to its open background. Windows on the other hand does everything with bloat, lots of bloat - this slows down the folding, But it is a much easier OS to get up and running if you are not tech savvy

I think people today don't stick at things very easily ie: get easily bored.
A folder has to be dedicated to the concept and stick at it.
Some , like in my team have millions of points and just add hundreds of points per day now.[Don't know why]
I can do 3 times my current output but the weathers warm , I don't have water cooling and my power bill is of interest to me.
An extra £2 a week adds up over 4 years [~$400+] on top of the coincidental folding when I use PC. So, in the winter I use it as background heating [at rather low level] to console myself- and it is in a good cause.
I do get a bit irritated at Stanford for their slow responses- but they are a corporate body and have many fish to fry.
I don't think contributors with limited funds for dedicated folding come high on their priorities for answering to wasted effeorts- but they would certainly miss my team header, in the millions of ppd league.
The new client [V7] should help remove sign up glitches and it runs with less trouble than earlier ones. This should improve throughput over time.
(Less flexible though, for someone who likes digging around

PS On the payment for results issue it would be fair to work out a average electricity cost for long term points gained and this could be refunded on Paypal or be donated to a charity of choice by the donor.
I only suggest this as when something is free - it tends to get taken for granted over time. Human nature!
It has cost me some hundreds of $$ over the years to fold on equipment bought second hand on eBay and I am happy to do it for free.
Others may not be,though..or prefer options as I mentioned.