Folding Forum

7im wrote:...
Which DC project doesn't use proprietary methods? Sure, the fah client is proprietary, but only acts as a file manager to download and upload work units. The fahcores that do all the processing are based on open source software. See Gromacs.org, and the like. See the Open Source FAQ on the project web page. You should really learn a bit more about the software before passing judgments about morality like that.

I've already seen this information. (The F@H project has been granted special permission to use code from these projects without needing to be an open source project itself.) My argument is still just as valid. I'm talking here specifically about the. If anything, I'm am ignorant about using the F@H program itself.

7im wrote:... Then you weren't listening, or aren't well informed. Several distros were listed above that help distribute fah (not the actual files, but scripts that download, install, and run fah), and fah does cooperate (when asked and is possible) to provide ways to make it easier to run fah. OC.Net was prevented from distributing the actual client files, but WAS helped with instructions how to use an installer or script that downloads the client from Stanford. And downloading the latest version of the client is usually better. Once you put a full client on a disk, it becomes outdated the next time fah updates the client. Why distribute outdated software? Why not distribute a script to get the lastest software?

I already acknowledged this in a previous post. Simply put: it's not the same. Although, yes, having the latest version would be smarter. It's really more about the freedom, I think.

7im wrote:Waste of bandwidth? Are you kidding? The client download is a fraction of the updates you typically download when installing a 'nix OS. And even if only running a liveCD, the client download is only a fraction of the bandwidth compared to all the work units that will be coming and going.

Good argument. I wasn't aware of this.

7im wrote:And no offense, but this has been debated several times before. The minuses outweighed the positives, and likely still do, irksome to you as they may be.

The thing is, I feel that the arguments presented by others been weak or limiting and people not taken seriously. Such forum thread gets trashed because people have biases which cloud their vision. (I don't really see that here, which is good.)

I do admit the arguments I have have presented are probably a little strong (for lack of a better word) than I would have liked.

sugar wrote:If anything, I'm am ignorant about using the F@H program itself.

I recommend you use it for a while and after youve gained some experience see if you still feel as strongly about the issues as you do now.

By the way, I forgot to say Welcome to the Foldingforum, sugar.

sugar wrote:The thing is, I feel that the arguments presented by others been weak or limiting and people not taken seriously. Such forum thread gets trashed because people have biases which cloud their vision. (I don't really see that here, which is good.)

I do admit the arguments I have have presented are probably a little strong (for lack of a better word) than I would have liked.

Too often people on this board equate strong as being an /\sshole. In my book, strong equates to passionate, and we can always use more people who are passionate about finding cures (as long as they don't let it become too strong and, as you said, let it cloud their vision, i.e. keeping an open mind to discuss the issues somewhat calmly and most intelligently). Too often, people come here with their minds already made up, and don't listen to both sides of the issues. Glad to see you're not a closed minded /\sshole. You will be quite an /\sset to the project.

bruce wrote:I recommend you use it for a while and after you've gained some experience see if you still feel as strongly about the issues as you do now.

I don't think using it will ever make me feel differently about my view of proprietary versus open source software. I think the problem here is that am I facing people who are more used to proprietary software. There are benefits to open source software, (don't get me wrong, there are benefits to proprietary and mixed software, too). (You've probably seen Firefox has progressed and surpassed a longtime rival.) Here's part of a conclusion I wrote for a paper about the open source model:

The human race is ultimately a community that is best served with the kindness and sharing that the open source concept exemplifies. Its popularity and success have been amply demonstrated by a multitude of users and uses globally. Open source gives dimension and meaning to freedom of rights over privatization and control

That is why I brought morals into the argument. Ultimately this is all about morals.

Oh and...

7im wrote:Which DC project doesn't use proprietary methods?

I assume DC means Distribution Client. In which case I point you to Berkeley's BOINC, although I admit I know little/nothing about the project except that its slogan is "Open-source software for volunteer computing and grid computing."

I should still note that the institutions I am around use F@H all the time. It's not like F@H isn't apart of me. And perhaps I will eventually use F@H myself, despite the "moral" issues I have with it.

7im wrote:Too often people on this board equate strong as being an /\sshole. In my book, strong equates to passionate, and we can always use more people who are passionate about finding cures (as long as they don't let it become too strong and, as you said, let it cloud their vision, i.e. keeping an open mind to discuss the issues somewhat calmly and most intelligently). Too often, people come here with their minds already made up, and don't listen to both sides of the issues. Glad to see you're not a closed minded /\sshole. You will be quite an /\sset to the project.

I try to stay open. Obviously people come from different sets of experiences, etc,.

id say most people who buy box computers never in the life of the computer uninstall or even shut off in the startup the preloaded crap. just think of the possibilities, team dell, team hp, it shouldnt be as hard of a sell since its already preloaded on ps3. think of the flops.