Curious, why are points so important to some?

[insidethejoke]

I am here because I just want to help out... I am lucky enough to have a ridiculously powerful mac that would otherwise sit idle, so I fold. I started out folding anonymously on my crap acer (it still does 50 ppd, whoo!) but with the mac now I do enjoy watching my points rack up and propelling team reddit higher in the standings, but thats just a fun aside. It seems like some donators are so wrapped up in the points, they are causing decreased efficiency of the system. cherrypicking wu's, abusing the stats page... not a troll, just curious, *why are you DOING that?*

[P5-133XL]

My interpretation: It's competition and how people determine if they are winning or losing that competition even if they are only competing against their own previous scores.

[warmon6]

I am here because I just want to help out... I am lucky enough to have a ridiculously powerful mac that would otherwise sit idle, so I fold. I started out folding anonymously on my crap acer (it still does 50 ppd, whoo!) but with the mac now I do enjoy watching my points rack up and propelling team reddit higher in the standings, but thats just a fun aside. It seems like some donators are so wrapped up in the points, they are causing decreased efficiency of the system. cherrypicking wu's, abusing the stats page... not a troll, just curious, *why are you DOING that?*

Well, for some it maybe that the points are a reward for doing something. Then it could go beyond that as they see others earning more points so they want to earn more than that person is making.

Im one of those people that want to earn more points faster (just have a competitive nature that im put at for a good cause). Although i dont cherry pick WU's, i just dont see the point in it, as your more than likely to get something similar to it.

What i mainly do is try to get the most of the points out of the hardware/os setup thats on there rig im using. Turning off services not need thats causing overhead, (if i could find a program with my laptop PLL i would) overclock, ect, stuff like that.


It just primary competitiveness of why people care about the points.

[7im]

Points equate to a form of payment for many. They become accustomed to earning a set rate of points. If that goes up, they're happy, but only for a short time as they get accustomed to the new level. If points then return back to the normal level, well that's a catastrophe. They feel like they are getting screwed over, but they're not. And they never once complimented fah when the points went up.

Human nature at it's finest.

[warmon6]

Points equate to a form of payment for many. They become accustomed to earning a set rate of points. If that goes up, they're happy, but only for a short time as they get accustomed to the new level. If points then return back to the normal level, well that's a catastrophe. They feel like they are getting screwed over, but they're not. And they never once complimented fah when the points went up.

Human nature at it's finest.

+1

[patonb]

Points are also a god way to monitor your rigs performance.

Like right now, I'm losing 1000ppd on 353pt gpu2 units.... not sure why, so I'll have to check out things.... All my gpu cunits are down upto 10sec per tpf.

[hrsetrdr]

Points are a measure of how much work your efforts are producing.

[mdk777]

Do you know anyone who runs and doesn't keep track of the distance or time?

Sure, some run for health, but they have an idea of either how far, or how long they run.

I have never met anyone who just runs everyday: without a watch, or without knowing how far they have gone.

Maybe not both, but never without at least one measure.

[cordis]

From what I've been able to understand about the project, the more points you have, the more science you've helped with. Now obviously, it's not a super objective system, so it's constantly being adjusted, and that can lead to some griping about inconsistencies that pop up. And sure, it gets to be competitive, but that's not so different from other forms of charity. Getting stuff like your name of a plaque or a bench someplace for being a high level donor to a charity is a common practice. Thinking about it in that framework, having a roll of donors ranked by their level of contribution is nothing strange. But since we're not donating something like money, with an objective value, it becomes hard to donate at a steady rate. That's probably the most frustrating thing about the points, you can set up your machines to generate a certain amount of points every month, but then later you'll discover that you aren't contributing as many points anymore because the clients or WUs have changed so that your old amount of machine time isn't worth as much anymore. Directly telling you that your standard contribution is worth less can be disheartening. But when you come down to it, the point system appears to be the most direct feedback we have to tell us how much help we're giving the project, so that's why points are important.

Of course, we could get into a deeper conversation about wealth or status displays among humans and other animals, but that would probably get crazy fairly quickly.

[patonb]

The only flaw is the unicore systems. I get 2500ppd on my quad at smp 2, yet 2 unicores would give about 4-700ppd.

The science is just as valuable, yet points are not nearly equal, or close.

[insidethejoke]

Thanks everyone, and thank you 7im for always having answers on this forum (and cause I love your pic). I totally understand how points are used to monitor system performance, that makes sense.

But the competitiveness to the extreme which I have seen here is where I think this really goes; cordis, your insight especially, your typical competitive donators relative position on the list is a measure of his points which are a currency here, so hes going to fight if suddenly his currency is devalued compared to the guy next to him, like a stock market crash. Of course he wants his compensation to be more/bigger/better...(cue Larry Daivd http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqncCjxGqGw)
I am a little troubled by the apparent arms race happening between processors and wu/points/bonuses, some are complaining that wu are too big, some that they aren't big enough. A lot of people here seem to be putting their points first and not the best interest of the project.

theres suggestions, solutions and then theres complaining. geez! stop complaining and just fold.


maybe Im the only girl here *cringes* dont throw anything at me!

[chrisretusn]

I too have often wondered why folks seem to be obsessed in points. Especially those who are getting tens of thousands of points per day. I am not all that convinced that it's all about efficiency and/or the science. If it truly is, then why quibble over a few points?

I fold on two machines right now. I prefer to run stock, not over clocked. As long as there is a WU running on my machines I am A-OK.

I do look at points. For one it's my gage that I am contributing. I like seeing my point increases It helps me visualize my contribution to Folding@home. I also follow my stats on four third party sites. Each gives me a different prospective. I also like to see how I am doing compared to other team members. I don't check my points everyday, unless I am close to overtaking or being overtaken. Then I just want to catch the moment. Today I was overtaken by a fellow team member. Was I disappointed? Of course I was, but that's life. My teammate must have a better machine(s) than I or he is getting lucky with the WU's, happens sometimes. I am happy for him (or her). I will not loose any sleep over it tonight that is for sure. I am however thinking of getting that new quad core mother board I have been looking at to put in one of my down boxes, maybe just buy a graphics card to put in this box. I just looked at that Mac Pro again that I have been wanting to buy for the last two years, which now comes in a 12-core model. Yes, they are expensive but I just want one.

[uncle fuzzy]

Most of the points crying happens when a new Project comes along that doesn't match the profile of the earlier work for that client. People get used to a certain daily production. I'm never happy when that happens, but I just squeeze the hardware a little harder to try and make up for the drop.

Unlike some, I check my third-party stats every update during the day. That tells me if my machines are running properly. If the point/WU count is off, I know I have to check all the clients when I get home.

My team is also used to a certain output from me, and I have to live up to that. Ya, we do this for the science, but the points are also important, in their own way.

[PantherX]

Recently, points have mattered to me more than ever as our Team will soon be cracking the Top 60 Teams in the World. I think that its a huge achievement for out team as we started in 2007 (not really sure as I joined in 2009) and within 3 years, we have made a huge progress. Not to mention that there are over 185600 teams in the world!

[Grandpa_01]

Most of the points crying happens when a new Project comes along that doesn't match the profile of the earlier work for that client. People get used to a certain daily production. I'm never happy when that happens, but I just squeeze the hardware a little harder to try and make up for the drop.

Unlike some, I check my third-party stats every update during the day. That tells me if my machines are running properly. If the point/WU count is off, I know I have to check all the clients when I get home.

My team is also used to a certain output from me, and I have to live up to that. Ya, we do this for the science, but the points are also important, in their own way.

I second that and might add that most of the people who do cry about the points decline (myself included) are just venting, allot of us are competitive it is in our human nature. I believe that most of us want to do the best we can at most anything we do and the PPD is a measurement of how well we are doing at folding. PG is not stupid and started the points system for a reason, if you want a Mule to move just dangle a carrot in front of him and he will move until that carrot is gone, the more carrots you have the further that Mule will move. The same thing happens with the points system some of us (no all) will strive to get the most PPD we can and will upgrade build farms etc. to do more WU's and get the added bonus of more PPD.
The flip side of that is that some may be to completive and stop thinking about what the project is all about, But I believe there numbers are comparatively few and PG is working on ways to stop it. All in all the points system is probably the best thing PG did. I mean look at all of the good it has done, It has made fools like me go out and spend extra $$$$$ to build these machines and extra $$$$ in energy cost to operate them so we can feel good about helping find cures for deadly ailments and be competitive at the same time.